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New Tactical Rifle Smith & Wesson M&P AR-15 (open MSR topic)

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Re: New Tactical Rifle Smith & Wesson M&P AR-15 (open MSR topic)

Post by RRCmdrBennett on August 24th 2013, 11:21 pm

I thought so as well. Seemed to go against everything I've been ingrained to believe too.

Another good analogy is you only need 2 shells, 7 rounds (NY), or 10 rounds (Obama) because you usually only face 1-2 attackers. You'll be glad you had more rounds if you face 3+ attackers. One lady put 6 rounds in a guy and he still got back up! Leaves 1 for a second guy if you're a NY resident.

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Re: New Tactical Rifle Smith & Wesson M&P AR-15 (open MSR topic)

Post by sreidelberger on August 25th 2013, 9:16 am

Claymore wrote:In Viet Nam in the early-mid '60's, M-16's were issued without cleaning kits, and described as being "self-cleaning weapons".  Numerous U.S. troops died, because of jammed rifles in combat.
My dad was a Marine infantry weapons repairman in vietnam 1966-67. He worked on everything from 1911's to the m2 browning .50 cal. Pretty much the whole Marine Corps was still carrying m14s at this time. After he'd been there a few months, the Marine Corps sent all the weapons guys to a class on the m16. The class was put on by some army guys sent from the states to "sell" the marines on the m16. What they didnt realize was that all the marines in the class were all combat vets and had all seen the results of the "new and improved" rifle (ie. lots of dead troops with jammed m16s). About a month later, the marine corps did something it had never done before. It offered the marines a choice: Keep your m14s or take the new m16. All the marines kept their m14s. I dont know when the marines finally switched to the m16, but it was after dad came home.

Time has proven the m16/ar15 to be a fine rifle, but those early years were rough.

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Re: New Tactical Rifle Smith & Wesson M&P AR-15 (open MSR topic)

Post by RRCmdrBennett on August 25th 2013, 9:23 am

Is it true bad weather like snow, sleet, rain, mud, etc will affect the AR's reliability? There's this whole debate over AR vs. AK-47. I was browsing an AR book at Dunham's which field tested many popular AR makes & models in all weather conditions stating they still functioned reliably.

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Re: New Tactical Rifle Smith & Wesson M&P AR-15 (open MSR topic)

Post by Claymore on August 25th 2013, 10:51 pm

The New York Times & I do not often agree, but here is an article that appears to be pretty close to on-track:

http://atwar.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/11/02/how-reliable-is-the-m-16-rifle/?_r=0

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Re: New Tactical Rifle Smith & Wesson M&P AR-15 (open MSR topic)

Post by RRCmdrBennett on August 26th 2013, 12:34 am

I gather you side with the AK-47 being more reliable?

I would suppose not all AR's are created equal.

I found this video shows how to clean the rifle. I really like that bore snake!  Chris has one for his Glock.



Last edited by RRCmdrBennett on August 26th 2013, 1:20 am; edited 1 time in total

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Re: New Tactical Rifle Smith & Wesson M&P AR-15 (open MSR topic)

Post by RRCmdrBennett on August 26th 2013, 1:17 am

This video: does a good comparison between AK-47 and AR-15. He mentions the early problems of the M16/M4. The Soviet and US flags were a nice touch with a bit of tongue-in-cheek humor.

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Re: New Tactical Rifle Smith & Wesson M&P AR-15 (open MSR topic)

Post by Claymore on August 26th 2013, 7:22 pm

If you notice, Hickock45 stated that he communicated with numerous folks in combat zones about the reliability of the M-16/M4, and they said, “As long as you maintain it, it works fine.”

I went back and looked at vuurwapenblog.com’s bio. It lists him as having been a Navy Medic with a combat tour in the Middle East.

The AR-15 is more finely made to tighter tolerances. The Kalashnikov has all the finesse of a Russian Tractor (primarily, because plenty were made in Russian Tractor Factories).

A “stock” AR-15 has Peep-Sights. They are much better than the AK sights for shots at 500 yards, but are impossible at night. Peep sights do not let enough light in. With the open sights of an AK, you can see over the sights well-enough to put rounds-on-target.

I had an M-16 “freeze-up” in Alaska in January. While carrying it in the woods on a week-long mission, ice formed inside of the receiver. Upon firing the first round, the bolt stopped halfway-back in the upper receiver.

The bolt wouldn’t go forward, and it wouldn’t go back. The only way to clear it was to remove BOTH receiver pins and pull it apart (not fun with Arctic mittens on).

With an AK, you could just “Kick-Start” it. (Put the gun on the ground, control the muzzle, while you pushed on the operating rod with your foot.)

If I was carrying a rifle in arctic conditions, where you have little daylight, the snow is flying, it is 30 degrees below zero, and you are so bundled up that you well seldom make a shot over 250 yards, I would take the Kalashnikov.

If I was in Afghanistan, and would be making routine shots over 450 yards, the AR-15 System rules.

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Re: New Tactical Rifle Smith & Wesson M&P AR-15 (open MSR topic)

Post by RRCmdrBennett on August 26th 2013, 9:38 pm

That settles it I'm buying both LOL 

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Re: New Tactical Rifle Smith & Wesson M&P AR-15 (open MSR topic)

Post by RRCmdrBennett on August 28th 2013, 10:13 pm

I was passing the Sporting Goods section on the way out of my store and noticed a red dot scope from Bushnell for $129. Claymore, is Bushnell a good name in optics?

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Re: New Tactical Rifle Smith & Wesson M&P AR-15 (open MSR topic)

Post by Claymore on August 28th 2013, 10:39 pm

Bushnell is kind-of considered as the "lowest of the acceptable" or the "best of the junk" in red-dot scopes.

Absolutely, do NOT get a BSA, Barska, NcStar, or other Russian or Chinese scope.

I know that you can go all the way up to $1,900.00.

But for just a couple of dollars above your $129.00 figure, you can get into a Burris Scope.

Go to Optics Planet, look at the Burris Speedot 135, then check out the reviews for it on the Internet.

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Re: New Tactical Rifle Smith & Wesson M&P AR-15 (open MSR topic)

Post by Claymore on August 28th 2013, 11:32 pm

By the way, for a rifle get the smaller dot (3 MOA or less).

5 MOA is way too big for a rifle.

There's one on ebay for $179.00

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Re: New Tactical Rifle Smith & Wesson M&P AR-15 (open MSR topic)

Post by RRCmdrBennett on August 28th 2013, 11:52 pm

Thanks for the advice. I usually figure most popular things sold at Walmart are't of high quality.


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Bourgeois Trapper 5/06, Free Trapper ?
Training Seminars/Camps:
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Re: New Tactical Rifle Smith & Wesson M&P AR-15 (open MSR topic)

Post by Claymore on August 29th 2013, 12:32 am

If you mount it on a "Flat Top", and do not have the "Flip Down" Front Sight, you will probably want to get a "Riser", because the front sight will be in your line of view.

They're only about $10.00 or $15.00 from Midway USA or at a Gun Show.

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Re: New Tactical Rifle Smith & Wesson M&P AR-15 (open MSR topic)

Post by RRCmdrBennett on August 29th 2013, 1:09 am

Claymore wrote:If you mount it on a "Flat Top", and do not have the "Flip Down" Front Sight, you will probably want to get a "Riser", because the front sight will be in your line of view.

They're only about $10.00 or $15.00 from Midway USA or at a Gun Show.
If the front sight is not flip down it'll be fixed? To my knowledge it has no sights at all.

These are the two I found at: www.opticsplanet.com/s/burris-speed-135-speeddot

I saw in the side panel a red dot reflex sight. What's your opinion of them?

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Re: New Tactical Rifle Smith & Wesson M&P AR-15 (open MSR topic)

Post by Claymore on August 29th 2013, 1:26 pm

RRCmdrBennett wrote:If the front sight is not flip down it'll be fixed? To my knowledge it has no sights at all.

These are the two I found at: www.opticsplanet.com/s/burris-speed-135-speeddot

I saw in the side panel a red dot reflex sight. What's your opinion of them?
Point #2: Yup. Those are them. I only have first-hand knowledge with the regular $200.00 Speeddot 135. I see that the XTS is about $50.00 more. I do not know what the added features of it are.

Point #1: If you have no sights at all, then you have a "true" flat-top, and do not need to worry about any "riser". A lot of rifles are the "A3" style, and have a flat-top rear, but have the fixed front sight assembly. My 6.8 SPC is set up like that, and I had to put a moderate-sized "riser" on it to get it past the fixed front sight.

Point #3: I saw the reflex sights, and saw that they only cost about $78.00. Jerry Michalek uses an Eotech Reflex sight for his close-in Championship Competition work, but it is a $680.00 sight. I just cannot see how a $78.00 sight is going to perform like a $680.00 sight. (I would be afraid of having Point-of-Impact variance by differences from your eye position behind the sight.)

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Re: New Tactical Rifle Smith & Wesson M&P AR-15 (open MSR topic)

Post by RRCmdrBennett on August 29th 2013, 5:58 pm

In military use have you used reflex sights? Is there a special reason Jerry uses relex over red dot optic scope?

If I wanted to add the red dot scope and flip down peep sights to the gun I can mount them simultaneously?


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Re: New Tactical Rifle Smith & Wesson M&P AR-15 (open MSR topic)

Post by Claymore on August 29th 2013, 8:14 pm

RRCmdrBennett wrote:In military use have you used reflex sights? Is there a special reason Jerry uses relex over red dot optic scope?

If I wanted to add the red dot scope and flip down peep sights to the gun I can mount them simultaneously?

#2: Absolutely!! That's the big advantage of a large tube sight like the Burris. You just attach the iron sights to the rails, sight them in, then flip them out of the way. They are called "BUIS" (Back-Up Iron Sights).

Some of the pricier milled steel ones cost as much as $100.00 each for the Front & Rear Units. But, if they are going to be "back-ups", you might go with a cheap NcStar $29.00 or a mid-level MagPul $55.00.

#1: No, I have not used Reflex Sights. A friend of mine put a cheap Russian reflex sight on one of his guns, but I do not know how the experience went.

Jerry Michalek has his precision sights on top of his AR-15. That is what he uses for long-range exact shooting (pie-plates at 100 yards). His reflex sights are mounted on a 45 degree angle on the side of the back rail. This sight was used to quickly hit man-sized targets at 3 to 5 yards. That's not a precision sight, just a FAST sight.

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Re: New Tactical Rifle Smith & Wesson M&P AR-15 (open MSR topic)

Post by RRCmdrBennett on August 29th 2013, 9:13 pm

So, reflex is good for close quarters home defense while red dot scope would help me hit that coyote @200+ yds?

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Bourgeois Trapper 5/06, Free Trapper ?
Training Seminars/Camps:
LTC LMA 5/94, Ranger Basics 1/05, LTA LMA 5/05, NTC IL 5/09, WCO 10/09, ICS 4/10, RKTC 7/10, Ranger Essentials 8/10, NRMC 10/11, Training Academy? NEEC? JBIE?
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Re: New Tactical Rifle Smith & Wesson M&P AR-15 (open MSR topic)

Post by Claymore on August 29th 2013, 9:24 pm

That's kind-of an over-simplification, but pretty-much right.

Actually, your most accurate sights will be telescopic sights (not good in low light or for fast shots) or iron peep sights (not good for low light).

A Red-Dot is not a 600 yard sight, but for Point-Blank Range to 300 yards, it's pretty good.

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Re: New Tactical Rifle Smith & Wesson M&P AR-15 (open MSR topic)

Post by RRCmdrBennett on August 29th 2013, 9:41 pm

Would holographic sights be any different than red dot scope/reflex sights.

A friend at church owns an AR and prefers the holographic sights. What are the pros and cons between them?

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Bourgeois Trapper 5/06, Free Trapper ?
Training Seminars/Camps:
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Re: New Tactical Rifle Smith & Wesson M&P AR-15 (open MSR topic)

Post by Claymore on August 29th 2013, 10:34 pm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Red_dot_reflex_sight_diagram.png

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Litepath.jpg

Kind-of goes to show that a GOOD Holographic Reflex Sight is more Complicated.

I've seen Cheap Russian "Reflex" Sights that were just an image projected onto the upright piece of polycarbonate (like a "Heads-Up" Display in an airplane or car that projects onto the windshield or plastic plate).

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Re: New Tactical Rifle Smith & Wesson M&P AR-15 (open MSR topic)

Post by RRCmdrBennett on August 29th 2013, 11:41 pm

Oh definitely would cost more. Is the value of holographic vs red dot enough to justify buying one?

I'm probably going with the Burris speed dot 135. Not sure which one. Did you read the specs on the higher priced one?

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fire FCF Frontiersman 9/91, Buckskin ?, Wilderness ? fire
Bourgeois Trapper 5/06, Free Trapper ?
Training Seminars/Camps:
LTC LMA 5/94, Ranger Basics 1/05, LTA LMA 5/05, NTC IL 5/09, WCO 10/09, ICS 4/10, RKTC 7/10, Ranger Essentials 8/10, NRMC 10/11, Training Academy? NEEC? JBIE?
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Re: New Tactical Rifle Smith & Wesson M&P AR-15 (open MSR topic)

Post by Claymore on August 30th 2013, 1:28 am

I do not know. I know that the way that the Red Dot scope compensates for eye position is by the curved lens. So when your eye moves, the point that the reticle is reflected to your eye also moves. I don't know about the holographic sight. I was watching a show on soldiers going through the Basic Ranger Course at Fort Benning, and they were using Eotech-Type Holographic sights (they might be more compatable with Night Vision goggles, also).

Insofar as the higher priced Burris: I did not really consider it. I went with the regular Speedot 135, because I wanted to mount the scope as low to the receiver as I could, and the straight tube looked like it would mount pretty-flush (however, I then had to put a riser under it, so that the fixed front sight wasn't blocking my view, duh).

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Re: New Tactical Rifle Smith & Wesson M&P AR-15 (open MSR topic)

Post by RRCmdrBennett on August 30th 2013, 7:18 am

The difference I see in them is flip up lens covers remind me of the scopes seen in various movies I've watched.

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RR GMA #83 Potomac Dist-#2366 Nat'l

"Be Ready, It wasn't raining when Noah built the Ark."

fire FCF Frontiersman 9/91, Buckskin ?, Wilderness ? fire
Bourgeois Trapper 5/06, Free Trapper ?
Training Seminars/Camps:
LTC LMA 5/94, Ranger Basics 1/05, LTA LMA 5/05, NTC IL 5/09, WCO 10/09, ICS 4/10, RKTC 7/10, Ranger Essentials 8/10, NRMC 10/11, Training Academy? NEEC? JBIE?
Outpost Leader Advancement Levels:
LMA-Advanced 10/11, MoE 2012-092

RR v1.99

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Re: New Tactical Rifle Smith & Wesson M&P AR-15 (open MSR topic)

Post by RRCmdrBennett on September 1st 2013, 1:45 am



I think I found the perfect AR rail!

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Dan Bennett
Sr Commander
N Central Area Communications Coord, CI
RR Outpost #215, Ohio District :flag:
RR GMA #83 Potomac Dist-#2366 Nat'l

"Be Ready, It wasn't raining when Noah built the Ark."

fire FCF Frontiersman 9/91, Buckskin ?, Wilderness ? fire
Bourgeois Trapper 5/06, Free Trapper ?
Training Seminars/Camps:
LTC LMA 5/94, Ranger Basics 1/05, LTA LMA 5/05, NTC IL 5/09, WCO 10/09, ICS 4/10, RKTC 7/10, Ranger Essentials 8/10, NRMC 10/11, Training Academy? NEEC? JBIE?
Outpost Leader Advancement Levels:
LMA-Advanced 10/11, MoE 2012-092

RR v1.99

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Re: New Tactical Rifle Smith & Wesson M&P AR-15 (open MSR topic)

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