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New Tactical Rifle Smith & Wesson M&P AR-15 (open MSR topic)

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New Tactical Rifle Smith & Wesson M&P AR-15 (open MSR topic)

Post by RRCmdrBennett on July 20th 2013, 7:25 pm

As I stated on the July Thread I put $ down on an M&P AR-15. Regular price at Fin Feather and Fur is $1099 but on sale for $879 with no sights. Of course Gander Mtn wanted $1499 for same gun and no sights. I had thought of price matching but I'd rather give my bizness to Fin than to price gougers. Only benefit is its closer and layaway is 90 days but they want 40% down instead of 10% at Fin.

I have fired only 4 shots from AR-15 last September. I know very little about about tactical rifles and would like to hear any tips from anyone who owns these types of guns.

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Re: New Tactical Rifle Smith & Wesson M&P AR-15 (open MSR topic)

Post by Claymore on July 20th 2013, 10:36 pm

My first love in a tactical rifle was the 7.62 NATO M-14. But as I get older and situations have shifted from a Battle Rifle on the Plains of the Midwest to the woods of Mississippi (where 100 yards is a long shot), the AR-15 is handier.

I will not use a .223 for deer again, but that is another topic.

The AR-15 works. The military has stuck with it since about 1966. I have not had jamming problems with an M-16/AR-15, providing that it is made with quality parts.

If you try to keep it "white glove" clean, you will go nuts (one of my problems with it). As soon as it fires the first round, it pukes carbon and exhaust gas all over the bolt carrier, bolt, and firing pin. But when you clean it, just get the carbon off with some solvent, and leave a light coat of cleaner/lubricant (like Break-Free) on the moving/touching parts.

Back in my day, we only had 55 grain full metal jacket ammunition (Geneva Convention). Now the bore twist is set up for 62 grain ammunition or heavier (that's a 15% difference). So don't expect 55 grain ammunition to hit in the same place as 62 grain.

You're not in the Army, so you don't have to use FMJ ammo. Find some reasonable-priced factory loaded soft-point ammo that your rifle likes, and you will have a good defensive set-up.

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Re: New Tactical Rifle Smith & Wesson M&P AR-15 (open MSR topic)

Post by RRCmdrBennett on July 20th 2013, 11:01 pm

Everyone else is welcome to make comments or ask questions even if you don't own one.

I'm also interested in learning about what add-ons are worth getting and which are junk. Specifically scope types and their pros and cons. Initially I want open sights.


Last edited by RRCmdrBennett on July 21st 2013, 12:43 am; edited 1 time in total

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Dan Bennett
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RR Outpost #215, Ohio District :flag:
RR GMA #83 Potomac Dist-#2366 Nat'l

"Be Ready, It wasn't raining when Noah built the Ark."

fire FCF Frontiersman 9/91, Buckskin ?, Wilderness ? fire
Bourgeois Trapper 5/06, Free Trapper ?
Training Seminars/Camps:
LTC LMA 5/94, Ranger Basics 1/05, LTA LMA 5/05, NTC IL 5/09, WCO 10/09, ICS 4/10, RKTC 7/10, Ranger Essentials 8/10, NRMC 10/11, Training Academy? NEEC? JBIE?
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Re: New Tactical Rifle Smith & Wesson M&P AR-15 (open MSR topic)

Post by Phillip Gross on July 20th 2013, 11:06 pm

What's an "MSR topic"?

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Re: New Tactical Rifle Smith & Wesson M&P AR-15 (open MSR topic)

Post by RRCmdrBennett on July 21st 2013, 12:49 am

Phillip Gross wrote:What's an "MSR topic"?

MSR means, "modern/military sporting rifle". Talk relating to the M&P AR-15 or any MSR is welcomed. I will not use the term, "assault weapons/rifle" so MSR is the proper name for these firearms.

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Dan Bennett
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RR Outpost #215, Ohio District :flag:
RR GMA #83 Potomac Dist-#2366 Nat'l

"Be Ready, It wasn't raining when Noah built the Ark."

fire FCF Frontiersman 9/91, Buckskin ?, Wilderness ? fire
Bourgeois Trapper 5/06, Free Trapper ?
Training Seminars/Camps:
LTC LMA 5/94, Ranger Basics 1/05, LTA LMA 5/05, NTC IL 5/09, WCO 10/09, ICS 4/10, RKTC 7/10, Ranger Essentials 8/10, NRMC 10/11, Training Academy? NEEC? JBIE?
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Re: New Tactical Rifle Smith & Wesson M&P AR-15 (open MSR topic)

Post by Claymore on July 21st 2013, 5:23 pm

Insofar as using a .223 for deer. I have tried it, and shall not do so again.

In 40 years of deer hunting, I know of only 2 deer that I have hit & lost, and they were both with a .223. The first was a buck that was quartering away from me. I could tell that I hit it, but it ran off, with no blood trail to track it.

The second was a doe with a good side-hit. I had stepped up to Barnes Triple-Shok Copper Solids ($2.00 per round), that were reported to be good on game up to the size of a small elk. She left a moderate blood trail in new snow. I attempted to track her for 2 days, but did not find her.

Now, I will not use a .223 for much other than defense and coyotes. I did pick up an AR-15 in 6.8 SPC. Wikipedia says that it has 40% more energy than the .223. My figures come closer to 30% (1,650 to 1,700 ft/lbs as opposed to 1,325 ft/lbs).

I may give it an honest try for our moderate-sized Mississippi white-tails.

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Re: New Tactical Rifle Smith & Wesson M&P AR-15 (open MSR topic)

Post by RRCmdrBennett on July 22nd 2013, 6:37 am

.223 though in the hi-cal range does have a small diameter only .003" larger than a .22. So unless your going for a headshot probably a .243 or .270 and above is better. Here in Ohio we're a shotgun only state for deer. We are allowed rifles for all other game. Only exception to the deer gun rule is muzzloading rifles can be used in regular gun season and blackpowder season.

I was thinking of using the AR-15 for hunting coyote. One it'll be my only hi-cal rifle and second it'll dispel the myth that people don't use MSR's for hunting.

Do MSR's come chambered in anything other than .22LR, .223, or .308?

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Dan Bennett
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N Central Area Communications Coord, CI
RR Outpost #215, Ohio District :flag:
RR GMA #83 Potomac Dist-#2366 Nat'l

"Be Ready, It wasn't raining when Noah built the Ark."

fire FCF Frontiersman 9/91, Buckskin ?, Wilderness ? fire
Bourgeois Trapper 5/06, Free Trapper ?
Training Seminars/Camps:
LTC LMA 5/94, Ranger Basics 1/05, LTA LMA 5/05, NTC IL 5/09, WCO 10/09, ICS 4/10, RKTC 7/10, Ranger Essentials 8/10, NRMC 10/11, Training Academy? NEEC? JBIE?
Outpost Leader Advancement Levels:
LMA-Advanced 10/11, MoE 2012-092

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Re: New Tactical Rifle Smith & Wesson M&P AR-15 (open MSR topic)

Post by Claymore on July 22nd 2013, 10:21 am

AR-15's can also be gotten in 6.5 Grendel, 6.8 SPC, .300 Whisper, .300 Blackout, 7.62x39 Soviet, .458 SOCOM (2,700 ft/lbs of energy) .500 Beowulf, and probably a few more calibers.

For most of that ammunition, you will be paying between $60.00 and $70.00 per box of 20 rounds. I can find 6.8 SPC at Wal-Mart for about $24.00 per box.

The main factors limiting the ammunition for an AR-15 are that it cannot be longer than a 5.56 round (to fit in the magazine), and the case rim cannot be a whole larger than that of a 5.56.

In AR-15's chambered for the 7.62x39 Soviet, so much metal is removed from the bolt face that there are concerns with some shooters that there is not enough metal remaining to do the job.

The .458 SOCOM and .500 Beowulf have “rebated” rims. The rims are actually smaller than the cartridge body, so that they can fit on the bolt face.

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Re: New Tactical Rifle Smith & Wesson M&P AR-15 (open MSR topic)

Post by RRCmdrBennett on July 22nd 2013, 2:51 pm

I've never a retailer offer the other chambers. Why can't they be more than 5.56mm long?

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RR Outpost #215, Ohio District :flag:
RR GMA #83 Potomac Dist-#2366 Nat'l

"Be Ready, It wasn't raining when Noah built the Ark."

fire FCF Frontiersman 9/91, Buckskin ?, Wilderness ? fire
Bourgeois Trapper 5/06, Free Trapper ?
Training Seminars/Camps:
LTC LMA 5/94, Ranger Basics 1/05, LTA LMA 5/05, NTC IL 5/09, WCO 10/09, ICS 4/10, RKTC 7/10, Ranger Essentials 8/10, NRMC 10/11, Training Academy? NEEC? JBIE?
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Re: New Tactical Rifle Smith & Wesson M&P AR-15 (open MSR topic)

Post by Claymore on July 22nd 2013, 3:13 pm

5.56mm is the Diameter of the bullet (approx .224 inch). Maximum length is about 2.26". Anything longer will not fit in the magazine. People have made barrel diameters as much as .50 Caliber (which is the largest sporting diameter allowed by the Machinegun Act). But you’re going to have a pretty heavy barrel to go around that 1/2-inch hole.

I have noticed that even my 6.8 Remington SPC barrel makes my AR-15 a bit heavy.

Insofar as retailers: those other calibers are not "stock" and are semi-custom production guns.

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Re: New Tactical Rifle Smith & Wesson M&P AR-15 (open MSR topic)

Post by RRCmdrBennett on July 22nd 2013, 3:19 pm

Someday I may get another in .308 cal

As for optics I've heard of open-sights, ghost, red-dot, holographic, telescopic, etc. are there anymore types. I've seen some small telescopic and long ones. What are the pros and cons of each? What would you recommend each for and what is your favorite to use and why?

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RR GMA #83 Potomac Dist-#2366 Nat'l

"Be Ready, It wasn't raining when Noah built the Ark."

fire FCF Frontiersman 9/91, Buckskin ?, Wilderness ? fire
Bourgeois Trapper 5/06, Free Trapper ?
Training Seminars/Camps:
LTC LMA 5/94, Ranger Basics 1/05, LTA LMA 5/05, NTC IL 5/09, WCO 10/09, ICS 4/10, RKTC 7/10, Ranger Essentials 8/10, NRMC 10/11, Training Academy? NEEC? JBIE?
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Re: New Tactical Rifle Smith & Wesson M&P AR-15 (open MSR topic)

Post by ccm2361 on July 22nd 2013, 5:57 pm

RRCmdrBennett wrote: MSR means, "modern/military sporting rifle".


I thought it meant Military Style Rifle Dunno 

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Re: New Tactical Rifle Smith & Wesson M&P AR-15 (open MSR topic)

Post by Claymore on July 22nd 2013, 6:00 pm

Depends.

If you want to make 400 yard shots over open country, Peep Sights or a Scope rule, but they are terrible in a dark Mississippi woods at dusk or in your house when you hear a "Bump in the Night".

For quick shots under 100 yards in variable-light conditions, Red-Dots or Holoscopic sights rule.

If you have the money, you can get a magnifier to go with your Holoscopic or Red Dot scope.

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Re: New Tactical Rifle Smith & Wesson M&P AR-15 (open MSR topic)

Post by RRCmdrBennett on July 23rd 2013, 12:42 am

ccm2361 wrote:
RRCmdrBennett wrote: MSR means, "modern/military sporting rifle".


I thought it meant Military Style Rifle  Dunno 

I've seen it in ads read as, "modern sporting rifle". http://acronyms.thefreedictionary.com/_/dict.aspx?rd=1&word=MSR the 26 MSR Down where it says weapon calls it modern sporting rifle. The www.nssf.org/MSR/ uses the same definition. Others have dubbed it, "military style rifle". I've used that term before as well. Either way the MSR acronym is accurate. I prefer the modern sporting rifle as it doesn't associate it strictly as a weapon of warfare.

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Dan Bennett
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N Central Area Communications Coord, CI
RR Outpost #215, Ohio District :flag:
RR GMA #83 Potomac Dist-#2366 Nat'l

"Be Ready, It wasn't raining when Noah built the Ark."

fire FCF Frontiersman 9/91, Buckskin ?, Wilderness ? fire
Bourgeois Trapper 5/06, Free Trapper ?
Training Seminars/Camps:
LTC LMA 5/94, Ranger Basics 1/05, LTA LMA 5/05, NTC IL 5/09, WCO 10/09, ICS 4/10, RKTC 7/10, Ranger Essentials 8/10, NRMC 10/11, Training Academy? NEEC? JBIE?
Outpost Leader Advancement Levels:
LMA-Advanced 10/11, MoE 2012-092

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Re: New Tactical Rifle Smith & Wesson M&P AR-15 (open MSR topic)

Post by RRCmdrBennett on July 23rd 2013, 1:06 am

Claymore wrote:Depends.

If you want to make 400 yard shots over open country, Peep Sights or a Scope rule, but they are terrible in a dark Mississippi woods at dusk or in your house when you hear a "Bump in the Night".

For quick shots under 100 yards in variable-light conditions, Red-Dots or Holoscopic sights rule.

If you have the money, you can get a magnifier to go with your Holoscopic or Red Dot scope.

Do red dot scopes require a battery like holographic sights?

Would I be off base to say that I could point the AR-15 rifle without sights (intuitive shooting) at someone and just point and shoot point blank range and hit the target? I figure most rooms in people's houses are 15 ft or less.

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Dan Bennett
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RR Outpost #215, Ohio District :flag:
RR GMA #83 Potomac Dist-#2366 Nat'l

"Be Ready, It wasn't raining when Noah built the Ark."

fire FCF Frontiersman 9/91, Buckskin ?, Wilderness ? fire
Bourgeois Trapper 5/06, Free Trapper ?
Training Seminars/Camps:
LTC LMA 5/94, Ranger Basics 1/05, LTA LMA 5/05, NTC IL 5/09, WCO 10/09, ICS 4/10, RKTC 7/10, Ranger Essentials 8/10, NRMC 10/11, Training Academy? NEEC? JBIE?
Outpost Leader Advancement Levels:
LMA-Advanced 10/11, MoE 2012-092

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