New Tactical Rifle Smith & Wesson M&P AR-15 (open MSR topic)

Just food for thought......

Colt, Smith & Wesson, Stag, & DPMS have quality control standards, & reject parts & barrels that don't make the grade. Who do you think buys those parts?

Answer: The cheaper gun makers.

I agree one can go dirt cheap nowadays at $650 and get 3 guns under $2k. I chose mid range with the M&P15 because it was as the miltary puts it, "highest quality at the lowest price" in my budget. Imho, 2 M&P15's is better than 3 American Tactical rifles. I think 2 M&P15's is better than one high end rifle because guns get lonely too.  If your wife jams up 1/600 shots hopefully your 1/600 will not coincide with hers. Also, you can handle more tangos with two rifles.

I don't care which brand you choose it doesn't have to be my rifle maker. Claymore mentioned several good ones.  If you break the bank on one $3k rifle you have nothing left for ammo. Don't forget in a, "scat hits the fan" (shtf) scenario you can't eat bullets, drink gunpowder, or provide shelter with an AR-15. You need $ for first aid supplies, water, MRE's, and survival gear. Come up with a hunker down plan and plan B: bugout option. Get your stuff together and practice how you will execute either plan.

I think we need to get a, "Preppers" forum on here...  

Another manufacturer to look at is “Windham Weaponry”.

They are the original founders of Bushmaster. When Bushmaster was bought-out by “Freedom Group, Inc” and closed out the Windham, Mass Bushmaster plant, Richard Dyke (Bushmaster’s original CEO) purchased the property and started re-hiring laid-off employees.

Their motto is “The Quality Goes In, Before the Gun Goes Out”.

Retail on their line of rifles goes from about $950.00 to $1,675.00, but I understand that they can be gotten for about 25% under that.

If I was going to get a new AR-15 to trust my life on, their Model CDI is set up to take whatever you may want.

It is the “pricey” one with a retail of about $1,675.00. But it looks like a friendly dealer might find one for about $1,250.00 to $1,300.00.

Here is a good review of the Windham CDI AR-15 in 5.56/.223 caliber. I like it I may buy it next.

https://youtu.be/jC-WYLDhYbI

Good Review.

Multi-Owner Lifetime Warranty.

Here is a tour of the plant, & it shows part of their Quality Control Process:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4j_4t6Zu51I

Dan, in the video that you posted, he stated that they shot 1,500 rounds, and had no malfunctions with anything other than Hornady Steel Match Ammunition.

So it sounds like, if you find a type of ammunition that the gun likes (which is 'most-all out there), it will about run forever.


Also, for information, steel cased ammunitionis NOT good for rifles made to U.S. Standards. It does not expand to grip the chamber like brass ammunition does. This results in 3 things:

#1. When the case does not expand to grip the chamber, there is more chamber/barrel pressure pushing on the face of the bolt, causing a higher chance of bolt damage/failure.

#2. Some of the gasses from this chamber/barrel pressure get between the steel case and the chamber, thereby depositing carbon inside of the chamber.

#3. This can cause difficult extraction, failure to extract, or torn rims from brass cases, if you attempt to use them without cleaning all of the carbon out of the chamber.

Here is an excellent article with photographs of what happens.:

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/edu18.htm

Definitely worth spending $1200 on. I'm still loving my M&P but this would make a good second AR for not too bad on $.

Btw, can you reload 5.56mm or .223 brass?

RRCmdrBennett wrote: 

Btw, can you reload 5.56mm or .223 brass?

Absolutely!!!

I have reloaded several hundreds of rounds.

I log all of my data as ".223", but I do list which Manufacturer & Lot of Brass was used. So that indicates whether it is Military 5.56 or Commercial .223.

You cannot put as much of the same powder in a 5.56mm case as you can in a .223. Also, you get higher pressures for the same volume of powder in a 5.56 case, because the "boiler" has less room.

Last week, I test-fired 5 rounds of a load in an AR-15 that had the old Viet-Nam era E-1 barrel and upper assembly. I found that the case necks had split on all 5 rounds.

Now those 5 rounds were from a test lot of ammo that I made & fired through 3 other rifles (5 rounds each). There were no split necks with any of the other 15 rounds.

So as they say on Sesame Street,

"................which of these is not like the other????????"

I was at Gander Mtn today and saw a DPMS AR-15 going for $799 and a Bushmaster Carbon 15 w/red-dot scop attached for $899. Seems Remington likes to include a scope with every gun. You knock off a $100 for the "cheap" scope and the gun is probably $799. I think they're banking low-info gun buyers and brand recognition of the Bushmaster name. One odd thing I noticed was a picatinney rail was mounted on top of the gun's picatinney rail and then the scope was attached. I figured it was a riser for clearing peep sights but no peeps were attached.

They had a load of AR-15 and AR-10's chambered in .22LR. I DON'T SEE paying $550 for a .22LR in an AR style rifle when I can get a good Ruger 10/22. The Remington .22LR I gave Ben has cycling problems every 10 rounds or so with all 3 magazines. I can't get an accurate price looking at Gander Mtn as they charge $400 above MSRP for my M&P15.

RRCmdrBennett wrote:
The Remington .22LR I gave Ben has cycling problems every 10 rounds or so with all 3 magazines.

Did you try different types of ammunition?

Some .22 semi-autos can be finicky. I have an old Coast-to-Coast/Marlin semi-auto that will malfunction 50% of the time with High-Velocity ammunition.

My solution: I picked up 2,500 rounds of mid-range ammunition for it.

It only cycles with 1000+ fps ammo. The CB or quiet .22 is too slow. I'm not aware of any issues with the .22 Long ammo I used on the camping shooting event. Maybe it likes Longs better than mini-mags even though its a .22 LR. Given Remington's bad rep it maybe just due to it being a 2nd tier gun.

http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/index.php/t-202860.html

Many people hating the Remington 597's and recommending the Ruger 10/22 and Marlin 60.

I just found this article by LuckyGunner.

They fired 40,000 rounds of .223 ammunition in 4 identical Bushmasters.

10,000 rounds of Federal 55 grain ball.

10,000 rounds of Wolf 55 grain steel with bi-metal (steel/copper) jacket.

10,000 rounds of Brown Bear 55 grain steel with bi-metal (steel/copper) jacket.

10,000 rounds of Tula 55 grain steel with bi-metal (steel/copper) jacket.


The Federal fired all 10,000 rounds without malfunctions.

All 3 Russian brands encountered nuerous malfunctions.

The Russian guns experienced excessive bore erosion at 4,000 rounds, and were keyholing by 6,000 rounds.

The gun shooting Federal showed wear, but was still within Service Rifle Spec at 10,000 rounds.

Here's the link:

http://www.luckygunner.com/labs/brass-vs-steel-cased-ammo/

I'll stick to the American brass.

Yup!

A few years ago, you could get South African and Portugese ammunition that was good quality; had brass casings and copper-clad bullets, but that has pretty-much dried up.

Were these Bushmasters original Bushmaster or Remington owned Bushmaster rifles?

"Ilion, New York"

However, they were Mil-Spec Barrels (or the Equivalent Thereof).

Bottom line is that 1 round of Russian Steel-Case Bimetal 5.56/.223 ammunition will cause as much (or more) wear as 4 rounds of Western Hemisphere Brass Cased, Copper Jaceted Ammunition.

Why would anyone fire that stuff if it wears out your gun so fast?

It's C-H-E-A-P!!

And it's Available (when other stuff is not).

And.....People don't know any better.

I'd be willing to bet that Wolf or Tula Pistol Ammo will to the same to barrels.

Local gun shop/range doesn't allow tulammo. (Sp?).

One should get wise if ammo is in abundance it probably is not good.

Well........

In a fight, it is better than Teeth & Fingernails.

So true. Better than peeing yourself to stop a rape.

If we're looking hard enough we'll find brass.

Is there any state or fed law probibiting a person from eliminating the stock and using the pistol grip only? I was reminded of the joke Hickok made about the AR being so light weight that it can be another handgun.

Claymore wrote:It's C-H-E-A-P!!

And it's Available (when other stuff is not).

And.....People don't know any better.

I'd be willing to bet that Wolf or Tula Pistol Ammo will to the same to barrels.

I knew there was a reason I didn't like the sound of that russian ammo. It was so cheap it made me wonder about quality.

RRCmdrBennett wrote:Is there any state or fed law probibiting a person from eliminating the stock and using the pistol grip only?  I was reminded of the joke Hickok made about the AR being so light weight that it can be another handgun.

There is no Federal prohibiting it, so long as the Barrel is at least 16 inches long AND the Overall Length of the gun is at least 26 inches.

However, it would't be worth a Snot.

The rifle would be absolutely ineffective (for most shooters) at any range over 30 feet.

We had some Pistol Grip Shotguns in our Drug Unit, and some of the SWAT Apes on the Entry Team thought that they would be cool with those shotguns.

I took them to the outdoor qualification, and almost everyone of them shot over a human silhouette target at 25 to 30 feet. You instinctively point the gun high, because you tend to lock your strong elbow, while you bend your weak elbow.