Search
 
 

Display results as :
 


Rechercher Advanced Search

Keywords

Latest topics
» Gold Dust and Feathers
by RRCmdrBennett Today at 4:15 am

» September 2017 Thread
by RRCmdrBennett Today at 3:45 am

» Ranger Comeback?
by joecool Yesterday at 10:58 pm

» August 2017
by RRCmdrBennett September 4th 2017, 12:46 am

» Culture Rot
by RRCmdrBennett September 3rd 2017, 4:14 pm

» T-Shirt Chuckles
by joecool August 26th 2017, 10:09 pm

» Back to Sea
by Claymore August 25th 2017, 10:05 pm

» Wheel in the Sky keeps on Turning. Cardboard Boat Hamster Wheel
by Mark Jones August 17th 2017, 5:44 am

» July Thread
by RRCmdrBennett July 31st 2017, 12:32 pm

Statistics
We have 84 registered users
The newest registered user is siletz

Our users have posted a total of 13008 messages in 694 subjects

Gold Dust and Feathers

Page 1 of 5 1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next

View previous topic View next topic Go down

Gold Dust and Feathers

Post by joecool on September 9th 2014, 12:30 pm

Hey, guys. Just got back from Arizona to see my brother. He's doing much, much better. After a couple of evenings reading the Gideon Bible in the motel room, I noticed a folded piece of paper. Opened it up and it was a handwritten excerpt from the Tibetan Book of the Dead...along with a feather. Did a little research and found that many "religions" impart some symbolism to feathers.

There's a Bethel Church in Redding, CA that was AG up until 1996. Their senior pastor said that their theology was "unique" enough to warrant going on their own. Whether they were thrown out, or whether they didn't want AG oversight, I don't know. They are big into physical manifestations and have a school of supernatural training. They are big into "research and development" of spiritual experiences, and they claim to have feathers falling upon them, as well as gold dust.

A couple of months ago, I was getting concerned about something the pastor was pushing and brought it to the elders first. As part of my conversation, I mentioned that I was aware of some people in our church getting involved with the feathers and gold dust thing. Lo and behold, two of the elders said they had personally experienced it. Currently, we have adult children of our pastor and present/past leadership attending the Bethel supernatural school. Anyway, I'm beginning to think that our problems started right about the time all this stuff came into our church. Coincidence? I don't know.

At tonight's leadership meeting, the pastor will be filling us in on a prophetic conference he would like to be funded to attend. It just so happens that the Bethel Church is hosting one at the same time. If that's the one he wants to go to, I'm going to have to lay out my concerns. I am very wary of extra-Biblical manifestations. My spirit is troubled and the warning bells are going off. In the interest of brevity, I haven't gone into everything about the Bethel Church and related stuff at my church. I don't think we need an exorcism, but sackcloth and ashes might be in order. Why can't we be satisfied with the completeness of God's word? Why do we have to bring in all this "man" stuff?












joecool
Special Member
Special Member

Posts : 1534
Join date : 2013-10-28

Back to top Go down

Re: Gold Dust and Feathers

Post by Claymore on September 9th 2014, 1:06 pm

It's a tough call. Some will say that, if you are not open to new revelations & manifestations of the Holy Spirit, then you are not truly Pentecostal.

On the other hand, Pentecostal and Charismatic Churches can be magnets to "wackadoodles" who have always been shunned by their peculiar mannerisms in the World, but may be accepted (even encouraged) in a Free-Worship Church. I have seen such persons not only be highly demonstrative, but even attempt to take over the services.

I have told a couple of pastors that Catholic and Lutheran Pastors have a much easier job; sit down and keep your mouth shut, until the Hymnal gets to the part that says "Response".


_________________
"Rangers Lead the Way"

18Z,        11B4X

"The last thing that I want to do is to hurt you,...................... but it's still on the list."
avatar
Claymore
VIP Member
VIP Member

Posts : 2061
Join date : 2013-05-17
Location : Northern Mississippi

Back to top Go down

Re: Gold Dust and Feathers

Post by Mark Jones on September 9th 2014, 5:00 pm

Well. Not going to put God in a box and say He doesn't move that way. I never have experienced it. Yet, I did get my hands kissed at a AG altar by and invisible being of some kind.. (I figured it was a angel)? It changed my life and I have no excuse. Along with that. I have heard God's voice 2 times. He told me "Trust Me, just trust Me" and another time He told me "do the first things".

I have seen Him unlock locked vehicle doors. Fix motor vehicle issues. Fixed a refrigerator. Has many times handled situations that I knew He was in control of. He moved me from one location to another location about 100 feet away in a split second two times with in about 3 minutes of each other. There are more..but these are biggies.

Yet when it comes to the supernatural we have to be careful as the devil is able to do things like this as well. I have seen many a supposed blessing cause issues.

My advice is to look at the fruits of it. Does it line up with God's Word? Does it eddify God? Are the people being built up by it or torn down?

It's a fine line. My God can calm the seas, out of no where cause a blast of air that will deflect a missle headed towards Isreal that would have killed many people. He is real. He does things both logical and illogical. He sets up laws and yet He can suspend the law if He wants.

He can heal or not. He can cause a bounty or not.

He's God and sometimes we think He is a big Geni we can call down and do our bidding if we are Moses and He has told us what to do... I know a story of a Pharoh that might have thought that about Moses's God.

I have seen people knocked down. I have felt a wirl wind around down at the altars as people were slain in the Spirit.
Sadly I don't see much of this anymore...but my faith is there and I don't know that God needs to prove Himself to me like He did at first. He is able.

Along with that..there are a lot of fruit loops out there.
Mark Jones
avatar
Mark Jones
Special Member
Special Member

Posts : 1534
Join date : 2013-05-16
Age : 58
Location : Springfield Missouri

http://readyrangers.tzo.com

Back to top Go down

Re: Gold Dust and Feathers

Post by Claymore on September 9th 2014, 5:25 pm

There are those from "Orthodox" Churches who make the argument that things reported and observed in Pentecostal Services can cause confusion, and since God is not a god of confusion, then they are not of God.

I am not saying that I agree: just that such an argument can be logically made.

When I see something unusual that appears to be supernatural, I am not the first to proclaim it. I am cautious. I am also not quick to criticize it, as I don't ever want to be on record for doubting or criticizing God.

My personal rule of thumb is, "Try to be Spiritually Sensitive, but Discerning".

I will admit that this may constrain me from being the first taken up into a Heavenly Whirlwind, but it has also given me a Hedge of Protection when some Eccentrics attempted to turn our church into a Bobbleheaded Cult of Whirling Dervishes .

_________________
"Rangers Lead the Way"

18Z,        11B4X

"The last thing that I want to do is to hurt you,...................... but it's still on the list."
avatar
Claymore
VIP Member
VIP Member

Posts : 2061
Join date : 2013-05-17
Location : Northern Mississippi

Back to top Go down

Re: Gold Dust and Feathers

Post by joecool on September 9th 2014, 6:06 pm

Claymore wrote: a Bobbleheaded Cult of Whirling Dervishes .

Claymore, you do have a way with words. I've been tipped off by an elder that the prophetic conference is something that we might actually host, and my research on the prophecy speaker gives me no cause for alarm. That being said, I am still concerned that our pastoral staff appears to be stuck in gear and has been running from fad to fad, and bestseller to bestseller. Still need to deal with that, and quickly, since our slide shows no sign of bottoming out yet.

joecool
Special Member
Special Member

Posts : 1534
Join date : 2013-10-28

Back to top Go down

Re: Gold Dust and Feathers

Post by Claymore on September 10th 2014, 12:08 am

joecool wrote:

Claymore, you do have a way with words.


That's what happens when you have a Senior Noncomissioned Officer that was an English Major in College.

_________________
"Rangers Lead the Way"

18Z,        11B4X

"The last thing that I want to do is to hurt you,...................... but it's still on the list."
avatar
Claymore
VIP Member
VIP Member

Posts : 2061
Join date : 2013-05-17
Location : Northern Mississippi

Back to top Go down

Re: Gold Dust and Feathers

Post by ccm2361 on September 10th 2014, 6:22 am

joecool wrote: I am still concerned that our pastoral staff appears to be stuck in gear and has been running from fad to fad, and bestseller to bestseller.

That is a great cause for concern.

too many Christians these days have got off course & turned to the world (man) for answers. When church leadership does that, it usually doesn't end well.




_________________
Chris
Senior Commander
MI Outpost 97
avatar
ccm2361
Admin
Admin

Posts : 1016
Join date : 2013-05-08
Age : 50
Location : St. Johns MI

http://rangerchat.forumotion.com

Back to top Go down

Re: Gold Dust and Feathers

Post by RRCmdrBennett on September 10th 2014, 5:11 pm

So true Claymore the Asuza street revival attracted many new age types.

I would determine the purpose of the gold dust and feathers. Determine its origin. If it comes from pagan worldly religions its best avoided. I don't think being outside A/G is bad but wonder what their reasons for breaking loose were?

_________________
Dan Bennett
Sr Commander (2007-2016)
N Central Area Communications Coord, CI (2016)
RR Outpost #215, Ohio District :flag:
RR GMA #83 Potomac Dist-#2366 Nat'l

"Be Ready, It wasn't raining when Noah built the Ark."

fire FCF Frontiersman 9/91 fire
Free Trapper 2016
Training Seminars/Camps:
LTC LMA 5/94, Ranger Basics 1/05, LTA LMA 5/05, NTC IL 5/09, WCO 10/09, ICS 4/10, RKTC 7/10, Ranger Essentials 8/10, NRMC 10/11,
Outpost Leader Advancement Levels:
LMA-Advanced 10/11, MoE 2012-092

RR v1.99

avatar
RRCmdrBennett
Moderator
Moderator

Posts : 3272
Join date : 2013-05-15
Age : 41
Location : Ohio

Back to top Go down

Re: Gold Dust and Feathers

Post by joecool on September 11th 2014, 8:07 am

RRCmdrBennett wrote: I don't think being outside A/G is bad but wonder what their reasons for breaking loose were?  

To quote their senior pastor: "Our call feels unique enough theologically and practically from the call on the Assemblies of God that this change is appropriate."

joecool
Special Member
Special Member

Posts : 1534
Join date : 2013-10-28

Back to top Go down

Re: Gold Dust and Feathers

Post by RRCmdrBennett on September 11th 2014, 10:12 pm

The call on all true churches are practically the same.

_________________
Dan Bennett
Sr Commander (2007-2016)
N Central Area Communications Coord, CI (2016)
RR Outpost #215, Ohio District :flag:
RR GMA #83 Potomac Dist-#2366 Nat'l

"Be Ready, It wasn't raining when Noah built the Ark."

fire FCF Frontiersman 9/91 fire
Free Trapper 2016
Training Seminars/Camps:
LTC LMA 5/94, Ranger Basics 1/05, LTA LMA 5/05, NTC IL 5/09, WCO 10/09, ICS 4/10, RKTC 7/10, Ranger Essentials 8/10, NRMC 10/11,
Outpost Leader Advancement Levels:
LMA-Advanced 10/11, MoE 2012-092

RR v1.99

avatar
RRCmdrBennett
Moderator
Moderator

Posts : 3272
Join date : 2013-05-15
Age : 41
Location : Ohio

Back to top Go down

Re: Gold Dust and Feathers

Post by Claymore on September 11th 2014, 11:35 pm

joecool wrote:

There's a Bethel Church in Redding, CA that was AG up until 1996. Their senior pastor said that their theology was "unique" enough to warrant going on their own. Whether they were thrown out, or whether they didn't want AG oversight, I don't know. They are big into physical manifestations and have a school of supernatural training. They are big into "research and development" of spiritual experiences, and they claim to have feathers falling upon them, as well as gold dust.





I was Assembly of God for over 20 years, and I only went over to Church of God, because we moved from Milwaukee, and COG is the church of my Wife's family down here.

Individually, I pretty-much like AG churches more. I like their autonomy and self-governance. While the Springfield Leadership makes me cringe, sometimes, I believe that churches (Pentecostal and Charismatic especially) should be monitored by a District Overseer, or State, or Diocese, or whatever. The worst-case scenarios of churches with Charismatic Leaders and no accountability can be seen at Waco and Jonestown.

The problem is that when a LARGE organization changes its mission from overseeing and supporting local churches, and takes on a life of its own; then its priorities become self-preservation, power, dominance, & growth. This can be seen to different degrees in histories of the Jewish Religion, Catholic Church, Church of England, Swiss Lutheran Church, Assembly of God (Swaggart & Baker), and many others.

_________________
"Rangers Lead the Way"

18Z,        11B4X

"The last thing that I want to do is to hurt you,...................... but it's still on the list."
avatar
Claymore
VIP Member
VIP Member

Posts : 2061
Join date : 2013-05-17
Location : Northern Mississippi

Back to top Go down

Re: Gold Dust and Feathers

Post by joecool on September 12th 2014, 3:07 pm

ccm2361 wrote:
joecool wrote: I am still concerned that our pastoral staff appears to be stuck in gear and has been running from fad to fad, and bestseller to bestseller.

That is a great cause for concern. Too many Christians these days have got off course & turned to the world (man) for answers. When church leadership does that, it usually doesn't end well.

The elders are finally ready for an intervention. Finally. Stay tuned.

joecool
Special Member
Special Member

Posts : 1534
Join date : 2013-10-28

Back to top Go down

Re: Gold Dust and Feathers

Post by Claymore on September 13th 2014, 12:25 am

I was searching around and ran into the following from an old Robert Schuller "Hour of Power" sermon at:

https://www.gty.org/resources/print/sermons/80-47

"And it is amazing to me that the people who in this movement are the highest profile, most verbal, most well-known and on the surface most successful and who are supposedly the spokesman for God, the ones who speak in tongues and heal people, the ones who have all this power, when you get behind the surface their lives are corrupt.  And it doesn’t take a Phi-Beta-Kappa to figure out that if God was going to pass out miraculous power, He wouldn’t give it to perverted people.  Why?  Because God’s miraculous power has always been to authenticate a true prophet and authenticate God’s Word and authenticate God’s spokesmen and God is not about to authenticate people who don’t live up to His standard and don’t speak His Word truthfully.  And what you’re seeing is the collapse of people who have presented themselves as if they were the unique spokesmen of God, but because there is an aberrant theology and a false spiritual standard, the superstructure is all wrong and all bad and the collapse is inevitable, it’s only a question of time."


This sermon was given shortly after the James Bakker and Jimmy Swaggart incidents. But there have been plenty of "Lesser Prophets" who have fallen from Corruption and Immorality since then.

Now, Schuller is obviously anti-Pentecostal and anti-Charismatic.  But here is the problem; the criticisms by him (and those like him) are true too often, and it is OUR fault.  We are not vetting persons who come into high power/profile in our movement.  

I 100% believe in the Spiritual Kingdom around us, and have known of many instances in which the Holy Spirit has touched people.  I also believe that many True, Real Pentecostals can be highly Spiritually Sensitive.

But we set ourselves up to being mistaken when our Yardstick to judge the state of a mans Holiness by how High he Jumps in Front of the Congregation.

_________________
"Rangers Lead the Way"

18Z,        11B4X

"The last thing that I want to do is to hurt you,...................... but it's still on the list."
avatar
Claymore
VIP Member
VIP Member

Posts : 2061
Join date : 2013-05-17
Location : Northern Mississippi

Back to top Go down

Re: Gold Dust and Feathers

Post by joecool on September 13th 2014, 8:55 am

Yeah, Robert Schuller. The original self-esteem, drive-in, crystal tower wizard-like, ministry-bankrupt guy. Not criticizing the criticizer or anything. He once paid a fine, apologized and was put on probation for going ballistic on a flight attendant back in the day. Got sued by the emotionally devastated guy for $5 million, but don't know if he got any manna.

joecool
Special Member
Special Member

Posts : 1534
Join date : 2013-10-28

Back to top Go down

Re: Gold Dust and Feathers

Post by joecool on September 13th 2014, 9:04 am

Claymore wrote: we set ourselves up to being mistaken when our Yardstick to judge the state of a mans Holiness by how High he Jumps in Front of the Congregation.

You mean like our pastor swinging an imaginary "high priest" censer of incense? That came in the same time the gold dust and feathers did. I don't understand why pastors and elders wouldn't do their homework (which includes prayer) before going to a Bethel conference. After five minutes of research, my feathers were ruffled enough to know there's something wrong with their theology.

joecool
Special Member
Special Member

Posts : 1534
Join date : 2013-10-28

Back to top Go down

Re: Gold Dust and Feathers

Post by ccm2361 on September 13th 2014, 12:42 pm

joecool wrote:
Claymore wrote: we set ourselves up to being mistaken when our Yardstick to judge the state of a mans Holiness by how High he Jumps in Front of the Congregation.

You mean like our pastor swinging an imaginary "high priest" censer of incense? That came in the same time the gold dust and feathers did. I don't understand why pastors and elders wouldn't do their homework (which includes prayer) before going to a Bethel conference. After five minutes of research, my feathers were ruffled enough to know there's something wrong with their theology.


what  wow  agreed

I think Claymore nailed it about many churches not vetting people enough.

A few years ago, one of my fellow Deacons (47 year old male) thought it was ok for him to start dating a 19 year old girl FROM OUR CHURCH & against her parents wishes to boot. Shocked  When objections were raised by Pastor, they both agreed to end the relationship.
But they continued to meet & escalate the relationship.

needless to say his time as a Deacon & member of our church ended shortly thereafter.

_________________
Chris
Senior Commander
MI Outpost 97
avatar
ccm2361
Admin
Admin

Posts : 1016
Join date : 2013-05-08
Age : 50
Location : St. Johns MI

http://rangerchat.forumotion.com

Back to top Go down

Re: Gold Dust and Feathers

Post by joecool on September 13th 2014, 7:55 pm

ccm2361 wrote: I think Claymore nailed it about many churches not vetting people enough.

At my church, Deacon #1 opted not to stand for re-election, saying that he "wasn't really cut out for this." Deacon #2 turned out to be a closet homosexual who gave his wife an STD. Deacon #3 quit and left the church when things got a little tough. After this string of losses, I recommended a way to vet candidates (although nothing is foolproof). Develop a list of potential candidates, figure out their strong points, and then ask them to help leadership out by tackling a short-term project or problem. Their response and "performance" could tell us a lot as to their suitability for deacon. The pastor gave it all of one second's consideration. I wonder if it was payback? A few years ago, he tried to institute "drawing straws" for our deacons. I was the only one to say no, and I backed it up with scripture.

joecool
Special Member
Special Member

Posts : 1534
Join date : 2013-10-28

Back to top Go down

Re: Gold Dust and Feathers

Post by Claymore on September 13th 2014, 9:34 pm

It's a shame that we (all Pentecostals) can't understand that just because we believe in the Holy Spirit, doesn't mean that everything that we say or do is necessarily of the Holy Spirit.

I have mentioned an "over-the-top" pastor that we had recently.  Any time that you would ask him to justify a command that he would give the Congregation (that was not in accordance with Past-Practice of the Church), he would either say, "Don't you want to see God work in this place?" or "Oh.  You're trying to quench the Holy Spirit!"

He never would give you an honest answer.

Oh, and then he had a guest pastor come in and Berate our Congregation, with the "jist" of his hour-long sermon being, "You need to be like Sheep and follow your Shepherd. The Goats need to be driven out."

_________________
"Rangers Lead the Way"

18Z,        11B4X

"The last thing that I want to do is to hurt you,...................... but it's still on the list."
avatar
Claymore
VIP Member
VIP Member

Posts : 2061
Join date : 2013-05-17
Location : Northern Mississippi

Back to top Go down

Re: Gold Dust and Feathers

Post by joecool on September 13th 2014, 11:36 pm

On our first day in boot camp, my company commander had us write down our definition of leadership. My response: "Maximum results with minimum friction." He selected me as his RCPO (top recruit leader).

At varying times in my military career and afterwards, I was sorely tested, but tried to keep that balance. Talk to your people and listen to your people before leading them. Take a shortcut too often and you'll find yourself alone. Or worse, driving them forward by hitting them with your shepherd's crook. My church isn't quite there yet, but the pastor has fewer sheep willing to trust his voice.

joecool
Special Member
Special Member

Posts : 1534
Join date : 2013-10-28

Back to top Go down

Re: Gold Dust and Feathers

Post by Claymore on September 14th 2014, 1:07 am

joecool wrote: He selected me as his RCPO (top recruit leader).

My guess: Recruit Chief Petty Officer.

Same-Same as Student Class Leader: Acting Sergeant First-Class?

_________________
"Rangers Lead the Way"

18Z,        11B4X

"The last thing that I want to do is to hurt you,...................... but it's still on the list."
avatar
Claymore
VIP Member
VIP Member

Posts : 2061
Join date : 2013-05-17
Location : Northern Mississippi

Back to top Go down

Re: Gold Dust and Feathers

Post by joecool on September 14th 2014, 5:34 pm

joecool wrote: I am still concerned that our pastoral staff appears to be stuck in gear and has been running from fad to fad, and bestseller to bestseller.

A couple of Sundays ago, the pastor showed a 45-minute video clip of Mark Batterson (the prayer circle guy) at the AG 100th anniversary shindig. Afterwards, our pastor closed with a few minutes' of comments, topped with "Let's dream again." Didn't really know where he was going, if anywhere. Today's sermon was on dreaming and his key points, as I afterwards researched, are straight out of Batterson's philosophy.

A year ago, he confessed to leadership about a thought that had crept into his mind. "Am I done at this church?" And his resounding answer was "No!" But, when all you can offer is what's in someone else's best-seller, maybe he IS done. I'm not saying that we can't use extra-Biblical material, but if that's all you got...

joecool
Special Member
Special Member

Posts : 1534
Join date : 2013-10-28

Back to top Go down

Re: Gold Dust and Feathers

Post by Claymore on September 14th 2014, 10:34 pm

Our Pastor is a Pentecostal, Holy-Ghost, Speaking-in-Tongues kind-of guy.  But he finished up his sermon today with,

"Some of our churches are being taken by Serial (cereal) Christians; Fruits, Nuts, & Flakes."

_________________
"Rangers Lead the Way"

18Z,        11B4X

"The last thing that I want to do is to hurt you,...................... but it's still on the list."
avatar
Claymore
VIP Member
VIP Member

Posts : 2061
Join date : 2013-05-17
Location : Northern Mississippi

Back to top Go down

Re: Gold Dust and Feathers

Post by joecool on September 15th 2014, 12:02 am

...with too much sugar as well.

joecool
Special Member
Special Member

Posts : 1534
Join date : 2013-10-28

Back to top Go down

Re: Gold Dust and Feathers

Post by RRCmdrBennett on September 15th 2014, 3:27 am

Remember worship isn't about God its about making you feel better - Mrs Osteen

_________________
Dan Bennett
Sr Commander (2007-2016)
N Central Area Communications Coord, CI (2016)
RR Outpost #215, Ohio District :flag:
RR GMA #83 Potomac Dist-#2366 Nat'l

"Be Ready, It wasn't raining when Noah built the Ark."

fire FCF Frontiersman 9/91 fire
Free Trapper 2016
Training Seminars/Camps:
LTC LMA 5/94, Ranger Basics 1/05, LTA LMA 5/05, NTC IL 5/09, WCO 10/09, ICS 4/10, RKTC 7/10, Ranger Essentials 8/10, NRMC 10/11,
Outpost Leader Advancement Levels:
LMA-Advanced 10/11, MoE 2012-092

RR v1.99

avatar
RRCmdrBennett
Moderator
Moderator

Posts : 3272
Join date : 2013-05-15
Age : 41
Location : Ohio

Back to top Go down

Re: Gold Dust and Feathers

Post by Mark Jones on September 15th 2014, 7:06 am

There is a lot of garbage going around. Fads seem to come and go in our denominations. Man seems to think he must add to what God has done. If they just preach the Gospel and let the Holy Spirit do the work.... "IT Works"

Paul said it all. We preach Jesus crucified. The simple gospel for salvation and sanctification. What got you saved keeps you saved as long as your faith remains in that.

Mark Jones
avatar
Mark Jones
Special Member
Special Member

Posts : 1534
Join date : 2013-05-16
Age : 58
Location : Springfield Missouri

http://readyrangers.tzo.com

Back to top Go down

Re: Gold Dust and Feathers

Post by Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

Page 1 of 5 1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next

View previous topic View next topic Back to top


 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum