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New Tactical Rifle Smith & Wesson M&P AR-15 (open MSR topic)

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Re: New Tactical Rifle Smith & Wesson M&P AR-15 (open MSR topic)

Post by Claymore on September 30th 2013, 12:50 pm

"You can Never have too much Ammunition or Primers!!!"

(Except during a house-fire.)

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Re: New Tactical Rifle Smith & Wesson M&P AR-15 (open MSR topic)

Post by RRCmdrBennett on September 30th 2013, 2:51 pm

Claymore wrote:"You can Never have too much Ammunition or Primers!!!"

(Except during a house-fire.)
The cop who did my ccw class said its really the pressure of powder inside a barrel that makes it fly. You could probably throw a bullet in a campfire and it just pop.

Some people have a safe room or fire resistant gun cabinet that could protect their arsenal and ammo.

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fire FCF Frontiersman 9/91, Buckskin ?, Wilderness ? fire
Bourgeois Trapper 5/06, Free Trapper ?
Training Seminars/Camps:
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Re: New Tactical Rifle Smith & Wesson M&P AR-15 (open MSR topic)

Post by RRCmdrBennett on September 30th 2013, 2:59 pm

To add a "thicker" fire-resistant cabinet after my .22LR is replaced is my next priority. Hopefully, tax refund will be nice to me or I'll pick up a pt time job and put one on layaway.

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Dan Bennett
Sr Commander
N Central Area Communications Coord, CI
RR Outpost #215, Ohio District :flag:
RR GMA #83 Potomac Dist-#2366 Nat'l

"Be Ready, It wasn't raining when Noah built the Ark."

fire FCF Frontiersman 9/91, Buckskin ?, Wilderness ? fire
Bourgeois Trapper 5/06, Free Trapper ?
Training Seminars/Camps:
LTC LMA 5/94, Ranger Basics 1/05, LTA LMA 5/05, NTC IL 5/09, WCO 10/09, ICS 4/10, RKTC 7/10, Ranger Essentials 8/10, NRMC 10/11, Training Academy? NEEC? JBIE?
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LMA-Advanced 10/11, MoE 2012-092

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Re: New Tactical Rifle Smith & Wesson M&P AR-15 (open MSR topic)

Post by RRCmdrBennett on September 30th 2013, 3:10 pm

Do you know much about gun safes? (Besides building a bank vault in your basement...).


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Dan Bennett
Sr Commander
N Central Area Communications Coord, CI
RR Outpost #215, Ohio District :flag:
RR GMA #83 Potomac Dist-#2366 Nat'l

"Be Ready, It wasn't raining when Noah built the Ark."

fire FCF Frontiersman 9/91, Buckskin ?, Wilderness ? fire
Bourgeois Trapper 5/06, Free Trapper ?
Training Seminars/Camps:
LTC LMA 5/94, Ranger Basics 1/05, LTA LMA 5/05, NTC IL 5/09, WCO 10/09, ICS 4/10, RKTC 7/10, Ranger Essentials 8/10, NRMC 10/11, Training Academy? NEEC? JBIE?
Outpost Leader Advancement Levels:
LMA-Advanced 10/11, MoE 2012-092

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Re: New Tactical Rifle Smith & Wesson M&P AR-15 (open MSR topic)

Post by Claymore on September 30th 2013, 3:28 pm

Dan, we talked about this at very great length on the old forum.

For the money, you cannot beat a $120.00 Stack-On or Homak. They are extremely tough. If you fill it with guns & ammunition or lag-bolt it to your wall studs, the local kids won't be able to crawl in through a window & walk out with it.

Biggest disadvantage: not fireproof!

But stop & think about it. I know a lot more folks who have been burglarized than had their homes burn down.

If I think of the number of burglaries that we had in our city when I was on patrol vs the number of serious house fires, it was probably close to 500:1.

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Re: New Tactical Rifle Smith & Wesson M&P AR-15 (open MSR topic)

Post by Claymore on September 30th 2013, 3:35 pm

I had mentioned that I helped to teach Hunter Safety this past week-end.

After we had finished giving instruction, I was talking about MSR’s with one of the Game Wardens. He opened his truck and pulled out an M-16 with the M-4 upper receiver with a full monolithic rail, 12-inch barrel, vertical grip, light mount, adjustable stock, and an EOTECH Reflex Sight.

The sight was Fantastic!!!

If I really move my head around, it can change point of impact with my cheap .22 dot scope by 4 inches at 25 feet. If I really move my head around, it can change point of impact with my $180.00 Burris by 4 inches at 100 yards.

I moved my head around with the Eotech, and it moved NOT AT ALL.

He also had spring loaded, pop-up iron sights. They were set up so that they were in the middle of the line of view for the Eotech. You could verify that your Electronic and Irons Sights were all set, because, when you looked through the rear iron peep sight, the red center-dot for the Eotech sat directly on the tip of the front sight.

NEAT!!!!

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Re: New Tactical Rifle Smith & Wesson M&P AR-15 (open MSR topic)

Post by RRCmdrBennett on September 30th 2013, 3:53 pm

I don't plan on ditching my stack-on but just in case I am that unlucky 1/500 it be nice to know it would be protected.


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N Central Area Communications Coord, CI
RR Outpost #215, Ohio District :flag:
RR GMA #83 Potomac Dist-#2366 Nat'l

"Be Ready, It wasn't raining when Noah built the Ark."

fire FCF Frontiersman 9/91, Buckskin ?, Wilderness ? fire
Bourgeois Trapper 5/06, Free Trapper ?
Training Seminars/Camps:
LTC LMA 5/94, Ranger Basics 1/05, LTA LMA 5/05, NTC IL 5/09, WCO 10/09, ICS 4/10, RKTC 7/10, Ranger Essentials 8/10, NRMC 10/11, Training Academy? NEEC? JBIE?
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Re: New Tactical Rifle Smith & Wesson M&P AR-15 (open MSR topic)

Post by Claymore on September 30th 2013, 4:19 pm

I'll tell you what.

I once had insurance written for all of my firearms. It wound up being about 5% of their total value per year. So in 20 years, you would have spent as much as full replacement for your guns.

You could take the value of your guns, spend it on a safe, in 20 years it would have paid for itself, and you would still have the safe AND your guns.

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Re: New Tactical Rifle Smith & Wesson M&P AR-15 (open MSR topic)

Post by RRCmdrBennett on September 30th 2013, 4:39 pm

I'd rather buy "permanent" insurance through a fire resistant gun safe than to insurance. The NRA should promote that over selling insurance. No slight to the NRA I'm sure they get a little something-something back for promoting insurance coverage.

I think most insurance today is a big scam. It pays more so they know they can charge whatever they want.

_________________
Dan Bennett
Sr Commander
N Central Area Communications Coord, CI
RR Outpost #215, Ohio District :flag:
RR GMA #83 Potomac Dist-#2366 Nat'l

"Be Ready, It wasn't raining when Noah built the Ark."

fire FCF Frontiersman 9/91, Buckskin ?, Wilderness ? fire
Bourgeois Trapper 5/06, Free Trapper ?
Training Seminars/Camps:
LTC LMA 5/94, Ranger Basics 1/05, LTA LMA 5/05, NTC IL 5/09, WCO 10/09, ICS 4/10, RKTC 7/10, Ranger Essentials 8/10, NRMC 10/11, Training Academy? NEEC? JBIE?
Outpost Leader Advancement Levels:
LMA-Advanced 10/11, MoE 2012-092

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Re: New Tactical Rifle Smith & Wesson M&P AR-15 (open MSR topic)

Post by RRCmdrBennett on September 30th 2013, 10:11 pm

Now my decision is softcase or hardcase for transporting the AR? I saw a tactical case for $25 with 4 mag pouches and one external general storage pouch on the outside of a softcase at Walmart. I wouldn't mind putting a little bit of $ into a hardcase.

Should guns only be stored temporaril in a case? My dads were stored in a hardcase for many years and had lil bitof rust formed on he barrel of his pump shotgun. I figured it must of trapped moisture inside during storage.

_________________
Dan Bennett
Sr Commander
N Central Area Communications Coord, CI
RR Outpost #215, Ohio District :flag:
RR GMA #83 Potomac Dist-#2366 Nat'l

"Be Ready, It wasn't raining when Noah built the Ark."

fire FCF Frontiersman 9/91, Buckskin ?, Wilderness ? fire
Bourgeois Trapper 5/06, Free Trapper ?
Training Seminars/Camps:
LTC LMA 5/94, Ranger Basics 1/05, LTA LMA 5/05, NTC IL 5/09, WCO 10/09, ICS 4/10, RKTC 7/10, Ranger Essentials 8/10, NRMC 10/11, Training Academy? NEEC? JBIE?
Outpost Leader Advancement Levels:
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Re: New Tactical Rifle Smith & Wesson M&P AR-15 (open MSR topic)

Post by Claymore on September 30th 2013, 11:10 pm

RRCmdrBennett wrote:trapped moisture inside during storage.
That's exactly correct.

You are not supposed to leave a firearm stored in a case, unless it is within a protective barrier - like a Bianchi Blue Bag (I do not know if those are available any more, but there are other protective bags like Cortec).

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Re: New Tactical Rifle Smith & Wesson M&P AR-15 (open MSR topic)

Post by RRCmdrBennett on October 1st 2013, 10:03 pm

Today, I received the Beretta catalog and both of the Burris scopes you recommended were in there.

_________________
Dan Bennett
Sr Commander
N Central Area Communications Coord, CI
RR Outpost #215, Ohio District :flag:
RR GMA #83 Potomac Dist-#2366 Nat'l

"Be Ready, It wasn't raining when Noah built the Ark."

fire FCF Frontiersman 9/91, Buckskin ?, Wilderness ? fire
Bourgeois Trapper 5/06, Free Trapper ?
Training Seminars/Camps:
LTC LMA 5/94, Ranger Basics 1/05, LTA LMA 5/05, NTC IL 5/09, WCO 10/09, ICS 4/10, RKTC 7/10, Ranger Essentials 8/10, NRMC 10/11, Training Academy? NEEC? JBIE?
Outpost Leader Advancement Levels:
LMA-Advanced 10/11, MoE 2012-092

RR v1.99

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Re: New Tactical Rifle Smith & Wesson M&P AR-15 (open MSR topic)

Post by Claymore on October 1st 2013, 10:14 pm

I'll tell you what; before you buy it (unless you absolutely need to have a scope right away) find someone with an AR-15 with an Eotech on it. It blew me away.

Just looking at in in the gun store will probably not give you a proper appreciation. You really need to see it mounted on a rifle.

The Burris scopes have good reviews, and they are "good for the money". But man, they ain't Eotechs.

Now I understand how our troops were making so many "head hits" in Afghanistan.

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Re: New Tactical Rifle Smith & Wesson M&P AR-15 (open MSR topic)

Post by RRCmdrBennett on October 1st 2013, 10:35 pm

How much higher in price are the Eotechs?

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Dan Bennett
Sr Commander
N Central Area Communications Coord, CI
RR Outpost #215, Ohio District :flag:
RR GMA #83 Potomac Dist-#2366 Nat'l

"Be Ready, It wasn't raining when Noah built the Ark."

fire FCF Frontiersman 9/91, Buckskin ?, Wilderness ? fire
Bourgeois Trapper 5/06, Free Trapper ?
Training Seminars/Camps:
LTC LMA 5/94, Ranger Basics 1/05, LTA LMA 5/05, NTC IL 5/09, WCO 10/09, ICS 4/10, RKTC 7/10, Ranger Essentials 8/10, NRMC 10/11, Training Academy? NEEC? JBIE?
Outpost Leader Advancement Levels:
LMA-Advanced 10/11, MoE 2012-092

RR v1.99

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Re: New Tactical Rifle Smith & Wesson M&P AR-15 (open MSR topic)

Post by Claymore on October 2nd 2013, 2:06 pm

Roughly twice that of a Burris: about $350.00 to $450.00 for the model without Night Vision Compatability.

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Re: New Tactical Rifle Smith & Wesson M&P AR-15 (open MSR topic)

Post by RRCmdrBennett on October 3rd 2013, 11:01 pm

Claymore wrote:Roughly twice that of a Burris: about $350.00 to $450.00 for the model without Night Vision Compatability.
Well, I gotta have night vision compatibility...

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Dan Bennett
Sr Commander
N Central Area Communications Coord, CI
RR Outpost #215, Ohio District :flag:
RR GMA #83 Potomac Dist-#2366 Nat'l

"Be Ready, It wasn't raining when Noah built the Ark."

fire FCF Frontiersman 9/91, Buckskin ?, Wilderness ? fire
Bourgeois Trapper 5/06, Free Trapper ?
Training Seminars/Camps:
LTC LMA 5/94, Ranger Basics 1/05, LTA LMA 5/05, NTC IL 5/09, WCO 10/09, ICS 4/10, RKTC 7/10, Ranger Essentials 8/10, NRMC 10/11, Training Academy? NEEC? JBIE?
Outpost Leader Advancement Levels:
LMA-Advanced 10/11, MoE 2012-092

RR v1.99

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Re: New Tactical Rifle Smith & Wesson M&P AR-15 (open MSR topic)

Post by Claymore on October 4th 2013, 1:34 pm

OK, then $950.00.

But....

.....that doesn't include price of the Night Vision Scope. It just means that the reticle is compatable with Night Vision Scopes.

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Re: New Tactical Rifle Smith & Wesson M&P AR-15 (open MSR topic)

Post by RRCmdrBennett on October 4th 2013, 5:42 pm

Can you spot me a few bucks... Pray 

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Dan Bennett
Sr Commander
N Central Area Communications Coord, CI
RR Outpost #215, Ohio District :flag:
RR GMA #83 Potomac Dist-#2366 Nat'l

"Be Ready, It wasn't raining when Noah built the Ark."

fire FCF Frontiersman 9/91, Buckskin ?, Wilderness ? fire
Bourgeois Trapper 5/06, Free Trapper ?
Training Seminars/Camps:
LTC LMA 5/94, Ranger Basics 1/05, LTA LMA 5/05, NTC IL 5/09, WCO 10/09, ICS 4/10, RKTC 7/10, Ranger Essentials 8/10, NRMC 10/11, Training Academy? NEEC? JBIE?
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Re: New Tactical Rifle Smith & Wesson M&P AR-15 (open MSR topic)

Post by Claymore on October 4th 2013, 6:08 pm

Dan, I'll be happy to buy one for you.........

.......just as soon as I get ALL of my own rifles outfitted with them.

(Of course, that's with the proviso that my wife does not learn what that little piece of glass on top of the rifle is worth.)

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Re: New Tactical Rifle Smith & Wesson M&P AR-15 (open MSR topic)

Post by RRCmdrBennett on October 4th 2013, 9:25 pm

You got too many rifles...by that time Obama will be wearing his :king: openly!

I keep hush hush on prices. I told her she's buying an ipad when she saw the new gun and that I bought her a platinum Cedar Point pass. Ya know you gotta file those lil nuggets away they come in handy Wink 

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Dan Bennett
Sr Commander
N Central Area Communications Coord, CI
RR Outpost #215, Ohio District :flag:
RR GMA #83 Potomac Dist-#2366 Nat'l

"Be Ready, It wasn't raining when Noah built the Ark."

fire FCF Frontiersman 9/91, Buckskin ?, Wilderness ? fire
Bourgeois Trapper 5/06, Free Trapper ?
Training Seminars/Camps:
LTC LMA 5/94, Ranger Basics 1/05, LTA LMA 5/05, NTC IL 5/09, WCO 10/09, ICS 4/10, RKTC 7/10, Ranger Essentials 8/10, NRMC 10/11, Training Academy? NEEC? JBIE?
Outpost Leader Advancement Levels:
LMA-Advanced 10/11, MoE 2012-092

RR v1.99

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Re: New Tactical Rifle Smith & Wesson M&P AR-15 (open MSR topic)

Post by Phillip Gross on October 6th 2013, 3:50 pm

I'm gonna jump into this topic because I've had some more thoughts recently about getting one... or two. And therein lies my question. I know there's a wide range of prices and quality levels to choose from. So if you had $1200-$1500 to spend, would it be better to get one for the entire amount, or two for that same amount? I know the term "better" is always up for debate. I know that a higher quality weapon will last longer, but would it last twice as long or shoot twice as good? And, a higher quality weapon can still be only used by one person at a time. When I think about the possibilities of things I think that maybe having multiples would be the better choice. What say y'all?
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Re: New Tactical Rifle Smith & Wesson M&P AR-15 (open MSR topic)

Post by RRCmdrBennett on October 6th 2013, 4:50 pm

Phillip Gross wrote:I'm gonna jump into this topic because I've had some more thoughts recently about getting one... or two. And therein lies my question. I know there's a wide range of prices and quality levels to choose from. So if you had $1200-$1500 to spend, would it be better to get one for the entire amount, or two for that same amount? I know the term "better" is always up for debate. I know that a higher quality weapon will last longer, but would it last twice as long or shoot twice as good? And, a higher quality weapon can still be only used by one person at a time. When I think about the possibilities of things I think that maybe having multiples would be the better choice. What say y'all?
I'd say two mid-range guns are better than one high end. Reason is this more guns in the fight the better (if they're on your side!). You might consider a kit from Del-ton to build your own AR and buy a lower receiver separate. My M&P15 is $1100 msrp but you can find it for under $900 on sale. Get two of them and add flip up peep sights to start off. Remember, we don't know how much time we got left. Unlike a Marine you won't be firing it every week so it should last longer. With how interchangeable the AR platform is you can replace parts easily. Unlike buying a regular gun if the company goes out you lose direct access to new parts.

I'd recommend midrange gun if you're on a budget and flip down peep sights. That will allow for future upgrade to a red dot or holographic scope.

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Dan Bennett
Sr Commander
N Central Area Communications Coord, CI
RR Outpost #215, Ohio District :flag:
RR GMA #83 Potomac Dist-#2366 Nat'l

"Be Ready, It wasn't raining when Noah built the Ark."

fire FCF Frontiersman 9/91, Buckskin ?, Wilderness ? fire
Bourgeois Trapper 5/06, Free Trapper ?
Training Seminars/Camps:
LTC LMA 5/94, Ranger Basics 1/05, LTA LMA 5/05, NTC IL 5/09, WCO 10/09, ICS 4/10, RKTC 7/10, Ranger Essentials 8/10, NRMC 10/11, Training Academy? NEEC? JBIE?
Outpost Leader Advancement Levels:
LMA-Advanced 10/11, MoE 2012-092

RR v1.99

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Re: New Tactical Rifle Smith & Wesson M&P AR-15 (open MSR topic)

Post by RRCmdrBennett on October 6th 2013, 4:55 pm

Also, add for those who only prep by stocking fancy new pistols should be schooled. The rifle is the weapon of choice for warfare. Shotgun next and pistol for a backup. Our founders didn't win the Revolution with black powder pistols.

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Dan Bennett
Sr Commander
N Central Area Communications Coord, CI
RR Outpost #215, Ohio District :flag:
RR GMA #83 Potomac Dist-#2366 Nat'l

"Be Ready, It wasn't raining when Noah built the Ark."

fire FCF Frontiersman 9/91, Buckskin ?, Wilderness ? fire
Bourgeois Trapper 5/06, Free Trapper ?
Training Seminars/Camps:
LTC LMA 5/94, Ranger Basics 1/05, LTA LMA 5/05, NTC IL 5/09, WCO 10/09, ICS 4/10, RKTC 7/10, Ranger Essentials 8/10, NRMC 10/11, Training Academy? NEEC? JBIE?
Outpost Leader Advancement Levels:
LMA-Advanced 10/11, MoE 2012-092

RR v1.99

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Re: New Tactical Rifle Smith & Wesson M&P AR-15 (open MSR topic)

Post by Claymore on October 6th 2013, 10:34 pm

Phillip Gross wrote:I know that a higher quality weapon will last longer, but would it last twice as long or shoot twice as good? And, a higher quality weapon can still be only used by one person at a time.
For $1,200.00, you’re not going to get two good-quality rifles.

You asked if it will “...last twice as long...”.

That’s not the point.  You want a gun that is Utterly Reliable Every Time that you pull the trigger.  So a $600.00 gun may only malfunction 1 shot out of 50, and a $950.00 gun may malfunction 1 shot out of 600.  Which do you want, when you step onto the “2-Way Rifle Range” (where you shoot at the pop-up targets, and the pop-up targets shoot back at you).

You may open a $600.00 rifle, and not be able to tell the difference.  But you may not be able to see if the holes for the trigger pin are 2/1000 inch off, or if the bolt has been magnetic-particle tested for possible defects that could cause failure of the bolt, or if gas key on the bolt carrier has been properly staked in, so that it doesn’t freeze in the middle of a magazine of ammunition (unfixable without a hex-key set).

Purchase from a reputable company.  Colt is considered as about the best.  After that, I would look at Smith & Wesson, DPMS/Panther, and Stag Arms.

A quality company isn’t going to put out junk guns with out-of-spec parts.

Bushmaster used to be considered top-notch, but it was purchased by Remington, and is reputed to turning out some shoddy work.

Insofar as building an AR-15.  I have built about five of them, and would NEVER recommend building one as a defense gun, unless you are a very experienced armorer.  Of the five that I built, three had function problems - due mainly to out-of-spec parts from shady suppliers (look up “Nessard” of Northern Illinois).  2 of them became reliable enough to trust your life to, but that was after about 7 years of tinkering, replacing parts & head scratching.  

I use the third one as a “plinker” for practice; I’m just trying to wear it out, rather than put the miles on one of my “good” guns.

With the cost of all of the replacement parts that I had to purchase, I could have gotten a decent DPMS, Bushaster, or Colt.  

My best friend was a missionary to the Orient, and has a wife from Hong-Kong.  He told me that the Chinese have a saying, “Buy the Very Best, and only Cry Once”.

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Re: New Tactical Rifle Smith & Wesson M&P AR-15 (open MSR topic)

Post by Phillip Gross on October 6th 2013, 10:42 pm

Thank you. Definitely puts it all into proper perspective.
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Re: New Tactical Rifle Smith & Wesson M&P AR-15 (open MSR topic)

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