Culture Rot

Claymore wrote: If we are looking at meddling in elections by Foreign Governments, then what-all did the friends and acquaintances of Barack Hussein Obama do in an attempt to influence the National Election in Israel?

Not to mention Obama's trip to England on the eve of the Brexit vote. He literally threatened England's voters, telling them their country would go to the back of the line if they passed it.

joecool wrote:...He literally threatened England's voters, telling them their country would go to the back of the line if they passed it.

What a twit! One of, if not THE, weakest presidents this country has ever had trying to flex his manipulative muscles.

In the words of another great character... "That just BURNS me up!!!"

You know what they say about broken clocks...Today's Washington Post has an editorial by a well-known lefty. Although he is predictably snarky and his bias comes through, he blames both sides of the boomer generation for America's ills. That's what I've been saying for the better part of a decade. Since I said it first, I will say that he agrees with me, and not the other way around.

As treasurer of my church, I just started the process of switching our credit card company to our local bank (of course, they pass it on to a bigger company). A couple of days ago, a legit representative called me and requested a copy of my church's financial statement. Yesterday, I got an e-mail requesting my SSN so they could finish processing the request.

I forwarded that e-mail to the earlier representative, asking if it was bogus. Yep, it was an identity theft attempt. But here's the thing: it wasn't a random attack. Somebody has access to data owned by the credit card company or my local bank. I'm inclined to put a halt to everything, until my confidence level increases. I'm waiting for a response from our local bank before deciding.

Crappy world, ain't it?

You might want to pass that e-mail on to the FBI. By now, the address is probably abandoned, but there may be a trail of bread crumbs.

An acquaintance of mine on the other side of the state brings in nationally-known speakers on conservative/Christian issues on a regular basis. Sorta wish I lived out there to take advantage of it. Anyway, he says that the big comm/internet company out there is blocking his e-mails that have "offensive" subjects. You know, like "How To Protect Montana Women Against Transgenders."

It's going to get worse before it gets better (and better might only happen at the rapture).

I recently talked with one of my former students who graduated 9 years ago. He was the "rock" of his class, and has been involved in ministry for years. I asked how the rest of his class was doing...not so good. Two-thirds have turned their back on Jesus, hell-bent on living as the world does. A couple have repented and returned to the church, but most are still big-time lost.

It gave me pause to also think about how the kids in my church have turned out. Not a great track record, either.

I think about all the resources that we have expended on our young people that has ended up being wasted. Not wasted as if we shouldn't have tried, but wasted because it didn't work. We should be able to do better than the above. For sure we can't keep doing the same old thing, 'cause it just ain't working.

Been praying about it for a week now. What I'm getting is starting up a small group at church which will discuss it and then pray/think of ways to turn it around. Kind of like a spiritual think tank. I've been writing down a lot of things, but the end result has to be a "product" that people can actually use. That's going to take some work - coming up with something that others won't take offense at, or feel like we're stepping into their territory.

A lot of wisdom in RangerChat. If this takes off, I'll be asking for some of it.

I think that your stats make you.........................

.............................normal.


That sounds pretty close to the stats for youth from most-all churches -- to include myself. In the Army, the only time that I wanted to go to church was right before a Patrol Mission in Vietnam.

When I was 23, the only time that I called out God's name was when I had a High-Speed Parachute Malfunction (Bag-Lock).

My wife was churched, too. She was about as much of a "lip-service Christian" as I was.

What brought ME back was when we had our first child. He was about 4 years old, and I wanted him to start to get the moral foundation that came with Christianity. The Civil and Criminal Laws tell us WHAT not to do; the Christian Culture tells us WHY.

So, we just went to church to take the kid (and a year later "kids"). I was just attending, observing and being polite. Then, guess what! It rubbed off on me, and I became a "Born-Again" Christian.

So here is what I am saying: We need to insure that the youth see a VALUE in continuing their Church/Christ Relationship (no, candy and popcorn are not "value"). Young peoples' minds do not maturely process information. They (often) cannot see the "long term" value in a Christ Relationship like we do.

If you can find a way to keep them while they are in that 18-to-25 year age bracket, God-Speed. If not, try to make the Church have something to offer the YOUNG Adult Families: Rangers, Kids-Club, Young Adults Group, Contemporary Christian Service, etc.

Even the "cult churches", that will shun a family member who disrespects their church (Amish, Hutterites), often give their youth a period of time of rebellion and exploration, before they reach the mandatory "Age of Reason".

Again, if you lose 70% of them, you're NORMAL.

If you can retain more than 30%, you're EXCEPTIONAL.

If you can bring them back when they are 24 and 25, you're SUCCESSFUL.

I agree that we need the "programs" to draw the young families and help the children while they're (the parents) getting straightened out. I think the ultimate key are dads. Dads need to be present, and plugged in to Jesus, their wife, and their kids. The parents will (should) have more opportunities to impart to the children than any church program.

Of course mine is all theoretical at this point because my oldest is only 13, but I constantly point to other children who aren't being raised in the things of God and adults who either weren't, or just didn't care. As Claymore pointed out, they must see the VALUE in walking down that narrow, difficult path that leads to life vs the wide, easy road that leads to death.

I think they're starting to see it even on the baseball team. They get annoyed at how unfocused, wild, and disrespectful the other boys on the team are. I simply say, "aren't you glad that I ride you hard?" They don't like it when I DO IT, but they're starting to see and like the results of it. Hopefully that will become a habit for them, to see the positive effects of the "narrow and difficult road".

It's honestly the same with any beneficial discipline whether it's diet/fitness, financial budgeting, a sport, or relationship with the Lord. Anything really worth having is HARD to get.

Towards the end of this morning's adult Sunday School class, the conversation turned to how many of their kids had gone full-on secular since leaving home. I kept my mouth shut and listened. After they were done venting, expressing regret and the like, I asked if they'd like to do something concrete towards helping the next group of kids. Five couples are in. Next step: talk to the pastor.

Phillip Gross wrote: I think the ultimate key are dads. Dads need to be present, and plugged in to Jesus...

Most true statement EVER!!!!!! you hit the nail on the head with this. And this is also why Men's ministry are the hardest demographic in the church to maintain a consistant "program"(for lack of a better word). There are so many things out in this world that are trying to pull the men out of the picture and keep us occupied from what is really important (Christ and Family). We are trying to get the Men's ministry going again after it died off in June. They guy who had been heading it up for years had decided to step down due to his declining health, but also due to the declining number of guys under 50 attending the monday night group (it was down to zero under 50). I believe that there has only been 10 or so men for the past year total. Part of the problem is that there was no structure to the night, just show up and maybe someone had something prepared. That was a big turn off for me, plus I couldn't commit to being there regularly anymore due to school board commitments. Before we started Rangers, we had a small group of guys, 4-5 that met and we went through whatever studies we could get our hands on. In hindsight, it was preparing us for leadership in the church and rangers.

seeing that this thread is called culture rot....I have been getting these weekly emails from a group called Axis.org They take 3 things that happened that week that teens would find significant and then help shed some light on them for Christian Parents and Educators to engage their kids/classes.

Worth checking out for anyone dealing with pre-teens and youth. here is a link to the archive, and it is free.

https://axis.org/ct/archive/?inf_contact_key=46c1d57d32ce572f802d05a46178b82b188481277f070da179bc6d17fa9079ba

Thanks for the heads up on that link Jeremy! I find that I've become fairly anti-gaming because of what I see from the kids who do it all the time. My kids have an Xbox 360, Kindles, and phones, but I limit their gaming a fair amount. They have lots of responsibilities and activities that keep them busy. Playing a game becomes something they can do after their chores and sports are done. I do have a pretty negative view of video games though. In that latest link it showed how you can take a popular game, Destiny, and show them positive things from it.

The truth is that I spent a fair amount of time playing Nintendo growing up. There were two games that I settled in on that I spent the most time playing. The first was Genghis Khan (goal is to conquer the known world of that era) and the second was Pirates (goal was to amass the most gold, ships, colonies, etc in the Caribbean during the pirate era). You know, I never really thought about how my game choices as a kid are so similar to my adult life. It begs the question of which came first, the chicken or the egg!

The next immediate question is what these kid's lives will look like that choose games like Grand Theft...

Our pastor is behind the effort to improve the odds of our young people staying in the faith. We start on May 14th.

T H I N K
About
Neighborhood
Kids

"We can Reach. We can Teach. It's time to Keep."

(Our church name includes the word "Neighborhood". I'm hoping the above displays well after I hit the "send" button.)

Canadarangers wrote: a group called Axis.org  

Wow. I spent some time going through their site today. Good stuff in there. It started with a couple of people who were concerned about how many young adults were walking away from their faith. Exactly my concern. Thanks for bringing it to my attention.

joecool wrote:Our pastor is behind the effort to improve the odds of our young people staying in the faith.

A few sundays ago we had Creation Ministries International come and speak on a few different topics...Lots of good info. But the one thing that stood out to me from that morning was a very sad statistic. Speaking about the Pentecostal Assemblies of Canada only, approx 90% of youth that grew up in the church will leave during post secondary school. They mentioned other denominations in Canada and a few in the USA (AG included) most were between 60-80%.

90%....That number blew my mind. What are we doing wrong, or better yet what are we not doing at all?

Canadarangers wrote: 90%....That number blew my mind.  What are we doing wrong, or better yet what are we not doing at all?

#1) From personal observation and research, I believe that the #1 reason why young people stay close to Jesus is.....parents. And as long as I'm at it, the #1 reason why young people walk away from their faith.....parents. While there are always exceptions to the rule, the parents' level of commitment is extremely important. Even if kids see their parents attend on a regular basis, if the parents don't get involved in some kind of ministry, the kids won't see the importance of church.

#2) Nobody ever got saved, or stay saved, living off their parents' faith. Young people need to make it their own, and have a personal relationship with Jesus.

#3) Young people aren't adequately prepared by their parents/church for what awaits them out there. Without the above, and the ability (through apologetics training) to defend their faith, they will fall big-time.

joecool wrote:

Canadarangers wrote: 90%....That number blew my mind.  What are we doing wrong, or better yet what are we not doing at all?

#1) From personal observation and research, I believe that the #1 reason why young people stay close to Jesus is.....parents.  And as long as I'm at it, the #1 reason why young people walk away from their faith.....parents. While there are always exceptions to the rule, the parents' level of commitment is extremely important. Even if kids see their parents attend on a regular basis, if the parents don't get involved in some kind of ministry, the kids won't see the importance of church.  

#2) Nobody ever got saved, or stay saved, living off their parents' faith. Young people need to make it their own, and have a personal relationship with Jesus.

#3) Young people aren't adequately prepared by their parents/church for what awaits them out there. Without the above, and the ability (through apologetics training) to defend their faith, they will fall big-time.

Read the parable of the sower and the soil types. Many appear to have faith but it never takes root. Many who appear to "have it" on the outside never have had a regeneration of the heart inside.

Came back from a rockhounding camping trip to find out that my city's commissioners passed a resolution saying that they were going to join in with the Paris Climate Accord (which Trump dumped).

Years ago, I got a letter to the editor printed, talking about how we were fast becoming the "Berkeley of the Rockies". Sigh.

Hate to hear that...

Good points. I found this to be true in our Ranger Programs I looked around and saw the leaders doing what the boys should be doing hearing from the leaders...well the end result is better. While this is a very true statement it left the boys no better for it and in my opinion worse for it.

We did the same thing last month...3 leaders jumped in on a extra work night and got a bunch of work done with no boys present... it was a blessing and we got a lot of work done. YET the boys didn't learn anything from it. We handed them oak FCF chairs that they had done a lot of the work on yet when I look at it...they really didn't do much on them. It took them forever to get anything done and what they did do was botched and some had to be redone....

I like the Bring your own, cook your own or go hungry theory in most of the events I take the boys on. It's teaching them Character, Responsibility, Skills to prepare and follow through. When we do it all for them it's not really them doing it...same goes for Church. Nothing invested little return.

Mark Jones

RRCmdrBennett wrote:

joecool wrote:

Canadarangers wrote: 90%....That number blew my mind.  What are we doing wrong, or better yet what are we not doing at all?

#1) From personal observation and research, I believe that the #1 reason why young people stay close to Jesus is.....parents.  And as long as I'm at it, the #1 reason why young people walk away from their faith.....parents. While there are always exceptions to the rule, the parents' level of commitment is extremely important. Even if kids see their parents attend on a regular basis, if the parents don't get involved in some kind of ministry, the kids won't see the importance of church.  

#2) Nobody ever got saved, or stay saved, living off their parents' faith. Young people need to make it their own, and have a personal relationship with Jesus.

#3) Young people aren't adequately prepared by their parents/church for what awaits them out there. Without the above, and the ability (through apologetics training) to defend their faith, they will fall big-time.

Read the parable of the sower and the soil types.  Many appear to have faith but it never takes root. Many who appear to "have it" on the outside never have had a regeneration of the heart inside.  

Mark Jones wrote:Good points.  I found this to be true in our Ranger Programs I looked around and saw the leaders doing what the boys should be doing hearing from the leaders...well the end result is better.  While this is a very true statement it left the boys no better for it and in my opinion worse for it.

We did the same thing last month...3 leaders jumped in on a extra work night and got a bunch of work done with no boys present... it was a blessing and we got a lot of work done.  YET the boys didn't learn anything from it.  We handed them oak FCF chairs that they had done a lot of the work on yet when I look at it...they really didn't do much on them.  It took them forever to get anything done and what they did do was botched and some had to be redone....

I like the Bring your own, cook your own or go hungry theory in most of the events I take the boys on.  It's teaching them Character, Responsibility, Skills to prepare and follow through.  When we do it all for them it's not really them doing it...same goes for Church.   Nothing invested little return.  

Mark Jones

RRCmdrBennett wrote:

joecool wrote:

Canadarangers wrote: 90%....That number blew my mind.  What are we doing wrong, or better yet what are we not doing at all?

#1) From personal observation and research, I believe that the #1 reason why young people stay close to Jesus is.....parents.  And as long as I'm at it, the #1 reason why young people walk away from their faith.....parents. While there are always exceptions to the rule, the parents' level of commitment is extremely important. Even if kids see their parents attend on a regular basis, if the parents don't get involved in some kind of ministry, the kids won't see the importance of church.  

#2) Nobody ever got saved, or stay saved, living off their parents' faith. Young people need to make it their own, and have a personal relationship with Jesus.

#3) Young people aren't adequately prepared by their parents/church for what awaits them out there. Without the above, and the ability (through apologetics training) to defend their faith, they will fall big-time.

Read the parable of the sower and the soil types.  Many appear to have faith but it never takes root. Many who appear to "have it" on the outside never have had a regeneration of the heart inside.  

Your story if boys not investing anything in the fcf chairs reminds me last Wed morning bible study I attend at a restaurant closeby. The pastor read section from 1 Chronicles about when David had Joab number the people. To amend for it he bought a sacrifice that was offered to him for free. He turned it down because it would mean nothing to him if it were free.

It's a true thing. Most folks don't appreciate the free part. If we have nothing invested in it..it means less to us.

Christ paid it all for us. WE don't have to do anything just believe...and most folks won't believe it because it's a free gift. YET If we have to work for it...now that's different. GRIN! Coming out of the Jehovah's Witness background they are so wrapped up in works they don't realize they have put their faith in their works instead of letting their faith produce good works.

Rangers has a ton of work involved with it. I know it doesn't save or sanctify me in any way. I do it because I believe it's good for the boys and it allows us to speak to them about God and Character development and I have seen with my own two eyes folks lives changed from it..but that faith is in Jesus and not any work I do. Rangers has the potential to speak many things in folks lives.

Yesterday.. while installing a 90 meg broadband line in a Frat house... A young man after I asked him about the Buffalo River down from where he was from he said I spent a lot of time with Royal Rangers...the sad thing in all this is the empty beer bottles were stacked up and the party cups were lined up and he had just moved in with 5 guys that would be tearing down all these things we teach in RR.

I didn't say anything to him. Felt like I should have but I didn't I was no different than him at that age. A time of foolishness. I pray that God is a lot bigger than my petty ideas of him. I know He often reveals his GRACE to even me a Sinner saved by Grace.

Keep up the Gospel work. It counts.

Mark Jones

A couple of months ago on one of these threads, I mentioned that I had formed a "think tank" of adults, concerned about the number of teens that leave their faith behind when they move away from home. So far, we've...

...researched a list of resources that parents and youth pastors can draw from, and
...put together a survey for our youth group to answer. From it, we will determine the tough questions that they would like answered, and then we'll develop a small group-style curriculum to do just that.

To paraphrase our DHS, "See something...DO something."

I can save you a whole lot of money and wasted time.  

Rangers had it right many years ago and have lost it in all the changes.

TIME spells LOVE.  Spend time with them.  The out of doors setting is Awesome way of doing that and it has a proven track record.  

In the 25 years of doing this I have found in the boys mind We are just a ole timer in the classroom.  Take them outside and you become their friend and they will listen to you after you spend time with them.  Working hard, eating, doing things that challenge them and build character with them. It works.  

Going back to what works is not failure. it's just putting a fresh edge on a good knife.

I will say when they were doing this we were keeping 10% of our youth at that time. Now it's down to less than 3%. One thing I have learned is that no matter what I do or say to someone...their choice to serve God or serve the king of this world is their choice. Many if not most youth will flounder in the world for a while. There is little we can do about that. Raise up a child in the way they should go... Bible is right again.

I wished I had a method to keep them all from doing the worldly thing...YET it gives me hope to remember God's Word on that..when they are old they will not depart from it.