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NRA and Conceal Carry Weapon Permit (CCW/OC)

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Re: NRA and Conceal Carry Weapon Permit (CCW/OC)

Post by Claymore on June 6th 2013, 12:34 pm

ccm2361 wrote:
RRCmdrBennett wrote:http://youtu.be/qKk45i9DzDA

I liked the video & love his range.
However I think that during his AR love fest, he missed 2 important advantages that the shotgun currently enjoys:

1) Home defense shotguns do not cost $1000+ (or even $500)

2) Shotgun ammo is cheap & plentiful. every store in town has lots of it.

Perhaps even a 3rd. He sort of touched on this: The PERCEPTION people have of the shotgun (thanks to hollywood) is that it can clear a street in 1 blast & nobody wins against a shotgun. I think that gives you a psychological advantage over the bad guy.

Now of course the AR looks all scary & EVIL! But those barrels look really big when you're staring down them





I'm sticking with my shotgun (especially since I don't have $1000 sitting around)

I respect Chris, and completely understand his arguements (especially financial) for the use of a shotgun as a Home-Defense Firearm. And I would definately prefer it less to go into the Emergency Room with a Shotgun Wound than a .223 Wound.

However:

30 years ago, a friend put the place of a shotgun into perspective. He said, "...a shotgun is a Peasant's gun. Even a farmer in China or Russia can get permission to have a shotgun..."

The point there is that, you are virtually no threat to the government with a shotgun. They will just back up to 75 yards and pepper your position with their rifles. There is a reason why the shotgun has not been a Major Combat Weapon since World War I.

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Re: NRA and Conceal Carry Weapon Permit (CCW/OC)

Post by Phillip Gross on June 6th 2013, 1:37 pm

I read about some SEALs in Vietnam using 12ga shotguns with a duckbill muzzle so that the buckshot would come out in a flat line instead of a round pattern. Obviously still a close quarters weapon, but from what I read it became pretty nasty with the shot coming out like that. I think the writer described it as nearly cutting a man in half...

Of course many things are written that may or may not be accurate.
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Re: NRA and Conceal Carry Weapon Permit (CCW/OC)

Post by Claymore on June 6th 2013, 1:52 pm

Private Melvin L. Brown received the Congressional Medal of Honor for killing 10 or more enemy using his entrenching tool (shovel). But that does not qualify it as a Major Combat Weapon.

That arguement might be used for Joe Biden to tell us to just keep a shovel handy. It works just as well as a rifle.....................

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Re: NRA and Conceal Carry Weapon Permit (CCW/OC)

Post by Phillip Gross on June 6th 2013, 2:49 pm

Not to mention how many have been killed by someone's bare hands... Laughing

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Re: NRA and Conceal Carry Weapon Permit (CCW/OC)

Post by ccm2361 on June 6th 2013, 6:05 pm

Claymore wrote:
ccm2361 wrote:
RRCmdrBennett wrote:http://youtu.be/qKk45i9DzDA

I liked the video & love his range.
However I think that during his AR love fest, he missed 2 important advantages that the shotgun currently enjoys:

1) Home defense shotguns do not cost $1000+ (or even $500)

2) Shotgun ammo is cheap & plentiful. every store in town has lots of it.

Perhaps even a 3rd. He sort of touched on this: The PERCEPTION people have of the shotgun (thanks to hollywood) is that it can clear a street in 1 blast & nobody wins against a shotgun. I think that gives you a psychological advantage over the bad guy.

Now of course the AR looks all scary & EVIL! But those barrels look really big when you're staring down them





I'm sticking with my shotgun (especially since I don't have $1000 sitting around)

I respect Chris, and completely understand his arguements (especially financial) for the use of a shotgun as a Home-Defense Firearm. And I would definately prefer it less to go into the Emergency Room with a Shotgun Wound than a .223 Wound.

However:

30 years ago, a friend put the place of a shotgun into perspective. He said, "...a shotgun is a Peasant's gun. Even a farmer in China or Russia can get permission to have a shotgun..."

The point there is that, you are virtually no threat to the government with a shotgun. They will just back up to 75 yards and pepper your position with their rifles. There is a reason why the shotgun has not been a Major Combat Weapon since World War I.


Didn't say I wouldn't own an AR or similar. Just don't have $1000 laying about. If I did I would have one too Mr Green

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Re: NRA and Conceal Carry Weapon Permit (CCW/OC)

Post by Claymore on June 6th 2013, 8:41 pm

Chris, I said,

"I respect Chris, and completely understand his arguements (especially financial) for the use of a shotgun as a Home-Defense Firearm. "

.......and I'm sure that Joe Biden would be just tickled pink with your decision. Mr Green

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Re: NRA and Conceal Carry Weapon Permit (CCW/OC)

Post by ccm2361 on June 6th 2013, 8:54 pm

Claymore wrote:I'm sure that Joe Biden would be just tickled pink with your decision. Mr Green

THEM'S FIGHTIN WORDS! bang


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Re: NRA and Conceal Carry Weapon Permit (CCW/OC)

Post by Claymore on June 6th 2013, 9:13 pm

Yup!

Joe's words of wisdom,

"Have a double-barrel shotgun. Fire 2 shots up in the air. Now you have a club!"

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Re: NRA and Conceal Carry Weapon Permit (CCW/OC)

Post by ccm2361 on June 6th 2013, 11:10 pm

here's me with a little something for Joe Slap

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Re: NRA and Conceal Carry Weapon Permit (CCW/OC)

Post by RRCmdrBennett on June 6th 2013, 11:34 pm

And don't forget to shoot through a door... You'll have a club and free room and board at County Ritz Carlton. Don't forget you may end up with a few potential bf's.

What Claymore said only validates my point its to put themselves at an advantage in a revolution. I would pick a pump over double barrel for its capacity. Most important thing is to be armed and know how to use it. I respect everyone's decision.

Has anyone ever wondered why they are starting with, "assault rifles" and magazines when it accounts for under 3% of gun crime? As well, DOJ stats show decrease in crime in areas with ccw. Rifles are the primary weapon of war. Knock out MSR's, then decrease mags, and next go for all rifles.

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Re: NRA and Conceal Carry Weapon Permit (CCW/OC)

Post by Claymore on June 6th 2013, 11:44 pm

Indeed!

And let's also remember the bulk of the ammunition. Compare sizes.

A 100 round "Value Pack" of .223 is almost exactly the same size as a 25 round box of 12-Gauge.

So for the size & weight, if you shoot 25 rounds of 12-Gauge, you're out of quarters.

But with a .223/5.56, you still have 75 rounds left (and they're more effective against black helicopters than shotguns).

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Re: NRA and Conceal Carry Weapon Permit (CCW/OC)

Post by RRCmdrBennett on June 12th 2013, 10:20 pm

I had a major drool attack today at Dunham's and Gander Mtn. They both had 3 AR's of different makes: American Tactical, S&W's M&P, and Bushmaster. Dunham's price range was $650, $850, and $1100. Of course Gander started off higher for each make. 

I liked the M&P.
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Re: NRA and Conceal Carry Weapon Permit (CCW/OC)

Post by Claymore on June 13th 2013, 12:37 am

My nephew (whom I only see about twice a year) stopped by about 2 weeks ago and wanted to show me something: a Brand New Colt Magpul M-4 and an SGWorks SKS Bullpup.  The Bullpup had a Bushnel reticle scope and the vertical foregrip.

I said, "Hey, I've been looking at getting one of those SKS Bullpups."

He said, "Yeah.  I know.  That's where I got the idea."

I didn't think that the little guy was paying attention.

Needless to say, I took him down to the range, to sight them in at 100 yards.

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Re: NRA and Conceal Carry Weapon Permit (CCW/OC)

Post by RRCmdrBennett on June 13th 2013, 8:16 am

What's your opinion of American Tactical?

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Re: NRA and Conceal Carry Weapon Permit (CCW/OC)

Post by Claymore on June 13th 2013, 6:05 pm

I just saw their site for the first time, today.

I, especially, like the "clip-on" Laser for Glock Pistols.

Formerly, the AR-15 was called the "Barbie Doll" of firearms, because of all of the "Dress-Up" Accessories available for it.

However,

The Glock is coming in as a strong second for the Barbie Competition:

OOH!  Here's "Glocksie" wearing an Extended Magazine and Muzzle Break on the way to a Combat Match.

Here's "Glocksie" dressed Light and Thin for a night out of Concealed Carry.

Here's "Glocksie", ready for a Burglar, with her Tactical Rail Light and Laser Target Designator.

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Re: NRA and Conceal Carry Weapon Permit (CCW/OC)

Post by RRCmdrBennett on June 14th 2013, 12:00 am

Aww man you had me cracking up. I'm wondering if its good brand since its the lower end of the price range?  It does have a milspec barrel. Sales guy at Gander thought S&W's M&P AR was better because more parts than just the barrel were milspec too. 

Its like Apple products its not the ipod, ipad, or computers that make you look and feel like one of the elite, its the $1000's of dollars you spend accessorizing it. Just more ways to get more $ from you after buying the main component. 

Though I would love to get a crimson trace laser for my XDm someday. 
Claymore wrote:I just saw their site for the first time, today.

I, especially, like the "clip-on" Laser for Glock Pistols.

Formerly, the AR-15 was called the "Barbie Doll" of firearms, because of all of the "Dress-Up" Accessories available for it.

However,

The Glock is coming in as a strong second for the Barbie Competition:

OOH!  Here's "Glocksie" wearing an Extended Magazine and Muzzle Break on the way to a Combat Match.

Here's "Glocksie" dressed Light and Thin for a night out of Concealed Carry.

Here's "Glocksie", ready for a Burglar, with her Tactical Rail Light and Laser Target Designator.
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Re: NRA and Conceal Carry Weapon Permit (CCW/OC)

Post by Claymore on June 14th 2013, 1:54 am

Their AR-15 is an enigma to me.

I've read that their rifles are made by "Head Down" of Texas.

I checked "Head Down's" web site, and they are charging $1,100.00 for upper receiver assemblies, and $1,700.00 for complete rifles.

American Tactical is charging $800.00 for complete rifles.
?????????????????

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Re: NRA and Conceal Carry Weapon Permit (CCW/OC)

Post by RRCmdrBennett on June 14th 2013, 7:49 am

Told me $650.

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Re: NRA and Conceal Carry Weapon Permit (CCW/OC)

Post by Claymore on June 14th 2013, 2:20 pm

I guess that the thing to do is to verify who made the rifle and check out their quality.

Here's an example of a mistake.

I had purchased parts from a company out of Northern Illinois, called "Nessard".  Their prices were about 25% below other AR-15 parts companies.

I later found that, when I put the bolt carriers in my receivers, the edges were sharp from machining.  The sharp edges on a steel bolt carrier was cutting out the aluminum receiver of my gun, every time that it cycles.

Also, the gas ports on the barrels were drilled too big.  This caused the rifle to cycle too violently and too soon (while there was still high chamber pressure).  So the brass was hanging up in the chamber when the bolt was attempting to extract.

Some of these problems (gas port) may show up right away.  Some (bolt carrier galling the receiver) may not show up for several hundred rounds. 

It was probably 25 years ago when I purchassed those bad parts.  The research information of the Internet was no-where what it is now.  In fact, I think that it was pretty-much not available.

Best answer is; Do your research.

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Re: NRA and Conceal Carry Weapon Permit (CCW/OC)

Post by Claymore on June 14th 2013, 11:25 pm

I just looked on Gunbroker and saw an ATI/American Tactical Omni complete rifle for $579.00.

It has a polymer lower receiver.  Jury is still out on how long they will last.

This rifle also has a "Blued" (not Parkerized) barrel.  This will definately rust before Parkerizing will.

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Re: NRA and Conceal Carry Weapon Permit (CCW/OC)

Post by RRCmdrBennett on June 15th 2013, 7:25 am

I may want to go one step up?

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Re: NRA and Conceal Carry Weapon Permit (CCW/OC)

Post by Claymore on June 15th 2013, 1:35 pm

For a "Tactical" Rifle, I would definately go with Parkerizing over Blue Steel.  Parkerizing has a rough/porous surface that soaks up and holds oil to protect the finish.  Also, a little spot of rust won't ruin the finish on Parkerizing, like a Blued Finish.

Insofar as the Polymer Receiver is concerned, the Jury is still out.  I have read of some reports of early Polymer AR-15 receivers breaking the front Hinge Tabs off (making the rifle useless). 

So, if you are going to hang your life on a rifle, I would go "One Step Up".

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Re: NRA and Conceal Carry Weapon Permit (CCW/OC)

Post by RRCmdrBennett on June 15th 2013, 8:44 pm

What's your recommendation for going, "one step up"?

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Re: NRA and Conceal Carry Weapon Permit (CCW/OC)

Post by Claymore on June 15th 2013, 11:35 pm

Man, that's an "all night" question.

I guess, get something that you know is factory built, by a name that you know some history about (example: how much do you know about "American Tactical"?)

You should probably not get one from Gunbroker.com, because it may be new, but it may be a "parts gun", and you do not know the quality of the parts.  The receiver may say "Bushmaster", but the barrel, bolt, & upper receiver could be junk.

So get a complete gun new from Wal-Mart, Dunhams, Gander Mountain, etc.  That way, you will know that the entire gun was assembled in the same factory.

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Re: NRA and Conceal Carry Weapon Permit (CCW/OC)

Post by RRCmdrBennett on June 16th 2013, 10:18 pm

I'm leaning toward mid range in price so maybe and M&P. Though I still like camo .270 savage bolt action with scope.

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Re: NRA and Conceal Carry Weapon Permit (CCW/OC)

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