Kel-Tec P-32 and P3AT Reliability Concerns

Since Chris just acquired a Kel-Tec P-32, I want to address a weakness in the design of it and the P3AT.  This is not meant to "knock" the pistols, but if there is a potential reliability problem, the owner is better-off being aware, so that he can take appropriate actions.

The P-32 and P3AT both have firing pins that are exposed in the "carry" configuration.  They are not covered by the hammer or by the back of the slide.   This makes this location vulnerable to having foreign material get into the firing pin channel.  Making things worse, there is a "notch" cut in the back of the firing pin, which gives dirt/lint/sand a natural path into the Firing Pin Channel, which can clog it.  The problem is that you cannot see when this occurs and could cause a problem.

I had personal first-hand experience with this.  I had been receiving threats that an individual was going to come after me with a firearm, so I kept my P3AT constantly in my pocket.  Every couple of months, I like to take it down to the range just to re-familiarize.

I pulled the pistol from my pocket (normal carry configuration), drew down on the target, pulled the trigger, and "CLICK".  You cannot re-strike the primer with the Kel-Tec, so I had to rack the slide and try again.  I was met with light firing pin strikes on each round, and about 50% Fail-to-Fire.

During the time that I had kept the pistol with me, I had been chain-sawing firewood.  Upon inspection, I could see fine sawdust that had gotten into my pocket and migrated into the Firing Pin Channel.

I attempted to remove the extractor, firing pin, & spring, but was unable to.  At the time, I thought that it may have been staked in, but I have learned that it was just held in with Lock-Tite.  I sent the pistol to Kel-Tec, they took care of the problem, and I had the gun back in about 5 weeks.

I am not the only person who has seen this problem.   In the following YouTube Video (in the comments section), a gunsmith stated that he has seen Kel-Tec pistols malfunction, because of simple pocket-lint in the firing pin channel.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9T-z59HDeTk

He also tells how to remove the Extractor, Firing Pin, & Spring.

So what are the solutions:

#1. If you are going to use the gun for Critical Use, test-fire it regularly, directly from the condition that you normally carry it.

#2.  You can remove the slide assembly and slush it back & forth in a bucket of kerosene or Poly-Dunk.  This "should" tend to float out particles, but you cannot be really certain without physically checking.

#3. You may want to consider regularly removing the Extractor Screw, Extractor, Firing Pin, and Spring to clean & inspect it for lint (you have to use a "star" Allen Wrench).

#4.  Now, I personally carry my P3AT inside of a closed Plastic Sandwich Bag, then in a soft holster, then in my pocket.  It may look really stupid, but it keeps dirt, lint, sand, & sawdust out of the Firing Pin Channel.  It also protects the finish, somewhat, from perspiration in the hot months.  I even practice drawing the pistol and firing it while still in the plastic bag.  It works just fine.  The bullets blow out the front, and the empty brass blows out the side.  If I really think that I am going into a high-risk area, I remove the plastic bag, until I get back to my farm.

So, again, I use my P3AT and carry it every day.  But to insure that I can bet my life on it, I know its weaknesses and plan accordingly.

Good to know!
thank you for that info. I pocket carry a lot so I may have to adopt the plastic bag method

Would using a can of compressed air ever so often to blow lint out of the firing pin be alright? I've used it for dusting off bunnies on desktop motherboards.

I've thought of that.  Maybe yes, maybe no.

While it probably should not hurt anything, in Armorer School, we were advised to not use high pressure air anywhere that there were little coil or leaf springs.  Reason being that there was a possibility that the air pressure could compress the spring and dislodge it from its proper place (such as down in the receiver of an M-16 or a Smith & Wesson Semiautomatic Pistol or in the bolt of an M-16).

There are two springs in/along the firing pin channel of the Kel-Tec slide: the firing pin return spring and the extractor leaf spring.

So I think that it is a safer bet to "swish" it in kerosene or PolyDunk.  We were always allowed to "swish" our receivers and bolt assemblies in the gun solvent tank.

Chris and I were discussing the kerosene suggestion yesterday. We wondered if you need to wait before firing the gun after soaking in kerosene?

Well you don't shoot it while it is still immersed in the kerosene.

Pull it out, shake it off, wipe off the excess solvent, and rub it with a rag or brush with a light coat of oil.

Virtually ALL gun solvents are flammable.  That's why, in the Military, we kept the 5-gallon cans of gun solvent out in the Paint Shed.

PolyDunk is just a combination of kerosene, ATF fluid, and some other magic ingredient (acetone?).

I'll tell you what.  This week-end, I will take my Kel-Tec's slide assembly, do what I just said, then attempt to light it.  I'll get back to you with the results.

Sounds like fun!

It's Monday, and here are your test results:

#1. Removed Barrel & Recoil Spring from Slide and immersed the Slide in a Coffee Can of Kerosene for 6 minutes.  Removed the Slide, shook it for 10 seconds and wiped it with a cloth for about 1 minute.  Applied open flame to the slide (including both ends of the Firing Pin Channel) with a Bic-type lighter.  

Results: Nothing.  No flame from any part of the slide.

Time: Immersion to Flame: 90 Seconds.

#2.  Removed Barrel & Recoil Spring, put the Slide into the Coffee Can of Kerosene for 5 minutes.

Removed slide and shook it for about 10 seconds (did not wipe off the slide).

Quickly reassembled the pistol & inserted a full magazine of 6 rounds and fired all rounds.

Results: The gun properly fired all 6 rounds without incident.

Time from Immersion to first Round: 1 Minute & 10 Seconds.

Time from Immersion to Last Round: 1 Minute & 25 Seconds.


Pistol used: Kel-Tec P3AT.

Ammunition used: Winchester Factory White-Box 90 Grain.

An old, Rotary-Dial Stop-Watch was used for all of the times.

Thank you for experimenting. (with a valuable piece of equipment)
good to know.

Also could a piece of scotch tape be applied (daily) over the back of the slide to cut down on possible debris entry?

ccm2361 wrote:Thank you for experimenting. (with a valuable piece of equipment)
good to know.

Also could a piece of scotch tape be applied (daily) over the back of the slide to cut down on possible debris entry?

I see what you are talking about. Interesting idea.

It looks like it would work, in theory.

The adhesives in tape are sometimes acidic, and so may be bad for the finish on the back of the slide, but this would not affect function.

My worry would be if the tape remained affixed to the receiver portion, and the slide portion let go, and then the tape got under the slide and jammed between it and the receiver (although I think that it would be unlikely).

If I was going to do it, I would put as little as possible over the bottom of the hammer slot (maybe even cut the tape in a "V" so that there was less stuck to the lower portion).

I also noticed that the hammer would probably SLIGHTLY contact the tape, as it prepared to strike the firing pin.

In any case, I would Field-Test it for unexpected problems prior to carrying it like that.

It would have been better if Kel-Tec had just designed the slide and receiver 1/4" longer, and they could have fully-encased the hammer and firing pin.

Part II

Here's a thought for you "handy" types.

Get some sort of Mold Clay/Plaster. Plug the Hammer Slot of the Kel-Tec. Put some Release Agent on the back of the Slide & Receiver, and make a Mold for a disposable "boot" to go over the back of the pistol and cover the hammer slot. You should remove it prior to use, but if you didn't, it would remove itself (but maybe give the operator a "kiss").

Just don't have an open mouth kiss.

I wonder why keltec doesn't make it 1/4" bigger or offer a "boot".

Very cool experiment.

Well, I don't know what is in the minds of Kel-Tec's Executives, but some firearms companies feel that, "To offer a remedy is to admit to a problem...".

Ruger & Glock are notorious for this (not that they are bad guns, but their attorneys will never let them admit to any shortcomings).

I was hired as a consultant when a Ruger 10-22 fired "out-of-battery" and threw shrapnel into the owner's hand, requiring surgery. Ruger's official reply was, "There is nothing wrong with the gun, but send it to us, and let us look at it."

The victim's attorney was too smart for that.

I also went to Glock Armorer School. Now, Glocks are good guns (how much can go wrong with a hammer?), but any time that they made a change or upgrade was "only to make it better", never because something needed to be fixed.

A good example is that you should not shoot non-jacketed lead bullets through a Glock. The Polygonal Rifling gives you a barrel that will last for tens of thousands of rounds without degrading, but they will "swage" lead bullets and lead buildup can accumulate in the barrel. Eventually, the barrel diameter becomes tight enough that excessive pressures occur, and the shooter experiences a K.B. (Ka-Boom).

I have never known Glock to admit that it is "nature of the beast" of Polygonal Rifling. They just insist that all ammunition shot in a Glock should be First-Loaded Factory, and that any other problems are because reloaded ammunition is out-of-spec.

With most people I've comment on Kel-tec its either 1 of 2 camps: Haters and Lovers.

I went out & shot the Kel-tec today It was a nice day!

only fired 65 rounds as rain was coming. No problems. Shot well once I got used to it.
kicked a little more than I expected-me being more used to .22 pistols

Forgot to take tape to test that theory

When I read the first line of your post, I thought to myself, "Did he take a plastic sandwich bag with him?".

Where did you shoot at?

Say Claymore
What is your standard carry ammo?

RRCmdrBennett wrote:Where did you shoot at?

At the Rose Lake state range

ccm2361 wrote:Say Claymore
What is your standard carry ammo?

Hornady Critical Defense orange-tip.

3 primary reasons:

#1. It performs reliably in my pistol and strikes at Point-of-Aim.

#2. Tests of Terminal Ballistics show good performance.

#3. It is Nationally Recognized, Factory Loaded Ammunition, and it is recognized by many Law Enforcement Agencies for Defensive Carry.

(Cost of $.75 per shot is NOT one of my reasons for using it.)

Claymore wrote:

ccm2361 wrote:Say Claymore
What is your standard carry ammo?

Hornady Critical Defense orange-tip.

I looked at their 2015 product catalog & they don't  list a .32acp round in the Critical Defense line. Did they discontinue it

Right now I am using regular Hornady 60 grain XTP, as it was what I could lay my hands on in sufficient quantity & decent price.

Remember, mine is a .380, so they may not have the same projectile available in a .32.

I like to check the reviews of folks who have purchased ammunition at Midway USA

http://www.midwayusa.com/find?sortby=1&itemsperpage=20&newcategorydimensionid=15419

Of .32 Auto ammo for DEFENSIVE purposes,

CorBon DPX got 5 stars (many by KelTec Owners)

Magtech Guardian Gold 65 grain gets 5 stars,

Federal Personal Defense 65 grain gets 4 3/4 stars,

Your Hornady XTP gets 4 1/4 stars


Buffalo Bore gets 4 1/2 stars, but it is +P, and your KelTec is not rated for that.

So your ammo is right up there.  If your gun handles it well, I'd be comfortable with it.  Maybe there's something else out there with a bit higher performance, but only if YOUR gun is reliable with it.

Forgot about you using a .380


I always liked Corbon/Glaser products. may have to get some of them

I have been experimenting with masking tape. Its not as sticky as scotch tape; so maybe it is less acidic?  The first piece I put on & then carried the gun all day & it stayed in place.

I also painted the sights, as the stock sights are hard to acquire in in anything less than full day light

What kind of paint did you use on the front sight?

just plain old craft paint