Gold Dust and Feathers

joecool wrote:

RRCmdrBennett wrote:What was the theological issue?

Bill Johnson says that Jesus was 100% man and 0% divine while He walked on earth. It's the linchpin of his theology. "Hey, we can do anything that Jesus did, because we're 100% man, too."

The wife of resigned elder #1 is still sharing Bethel stuff on Facebook. And still current elder #3 is making a little noise, too. He wants to know why a certain pastor finalist didn't get an interview. (He was dropped after we found multiple connections to Johnson theology.) As soon as we vote in a new pastor, elder #3 must resign, according to our by-laws. Will that end our "gold dust" problems? Probably not until all three elders leave.

Joel Osteen's wife claimed similar saying Jesus was just like any of us till God touched him.

You've probably heard about the young lady in California who disappeared while jogging. After three weeks, she was found battered and bound, but alive. Great for the family.

Meanwhile, a shady ex-USAF (never got above E-3) guy had injected himself into the story. He's had a couple of failed companies that tried to sell him as a security expert, etc. Even claimed that he was certified, but referenced a couple of federal agencies that don't exist.

Well, this time around, he claimed to be a hostage recovery guru who was being backed by a wealthy donor who wanted the lady rescued. Law enforcement started to question him, and he told them to back off or get sued. Lately, his only means of financial support appears to be a mega-church that adopted his company as a "ministry." When questioned by reporters, the church said that they support the man and his family as valuable members.

But they scrubbed any mention of this ministry from their website. The church's name? Bethel...the gold dust and feathers church. Seems the con men got conned by another con.

joecool wrote:You've probably heard about the young lady in California who disappeared while jogging. After three weeks, she was found battered and bound, but alive. Great for the family.

Meanwhile, a shady ex-USAF (never got above E-3) guy had injected himself into the story. He's had a couple of failed companies that tried to sell him as a security expert, etc. Even claimed that he was certified, but referenced a couple of federal agencies that don't exist.

Well, this time around, he claimed to be a hostage recovery guru who was being backed by a wealthy donor who wanted the lady rescued. Law enforcement started to question him, and he told them to back off or get sued. Lately, his only means of financial support appears to be a mega-church that adopted his company as a "ministry." When questioned by reporters, the church said that they support the man and his family as valuable members.

But they scrubbed any mention of this ministry from their website. The church's name? Bethel...the gold dust and feathers church. Seems the con men got conned by another con.

I've seen some video of Bethel its quite distrurbing see a boy appear to be tortured by a demon but claim its the Spirit of God.

A former youth pastor was the one who brought gold dust and feathers to our church. He then corrupted the elders and senior pastor before moving on to his own church on the other side of the state. He pushes it hard over there, and his flock has fallen from 100 to 20.

News came today that the AG district office pulled his accreditation within Montana. Seems he gave "troubling" answers to questions on a routine pastoral survey. A follow-up didn't go well, so adios. Not sure what that means for his church, though. I think they make the final choice on whether to keep him or send him packing. More than likely, the final few are loyal to him and his Bethel theology.

The "fruit" is rotten.

joecool wrote: Not sure what that means for his church, though.

The church kept the "Bethel-ite" pastor, and they formally left the AG denomination.

Well, people find plenty "wrong" with Organized Denominations.  This is generally when the Denomination is willing to cover up impropriety "for the better common good".

However,

Something that Organized Denominations CAN be useful for is in attempting to limit the damage done by Wingnuts and Wackadoodles.  In the Pentecostal World, you have to be careful about the line between "Freedom of Worship" and "Going Off the Rails".  Catholics, Lutherans, and Methodists have a much easier time of keeping their Clergy within the guidelines of their religions.

I believe that our Pastor put it well,

"We ARE a Pentecostal Church, but we don't want to be a Cereal Church............ full of Fruits, Nuts, and Flakes."

Yesterday, a parent gave me some materials to look over for possible use in school. It was a bit dated, being 17 years old, but the science arguing against evolution was good. I dug a little deeper and found that it came from a "patriarchal" ministry. The founder believes that all women must stay at home, no ifs, ands, or buts. And he has a rather large following, more for that philosophy than his homeschool materials.

It also turns out that he's currently awaiting a civil trial, brought about by his kids' former nanny, who claims that he sexually abused her for several years. While he did issue a carefully worded apology, his board of directors cut him loose. And his church "excommunicated" (their word) him, because he wasn't willing to take full responsibility.

And Christianity gets another black eye. Not only for his deeds, but for his wackadoodle ideas.

Sadly, anyone can say they are a Christian, but that doesn't mean they ARE a Christian.
I have met & work with quite a few of these "Christians".  
They say they are Christians, but seemingly make no effort to follow Christ.
They swear, take the Lord's name in vain, tell crude jokes etc. (I am sure you fellows know the sort )

It always seems to be this sort of "Christian" that ends up giving Christianity a black eye.


I parted company with the Lord at age 17 & didn't come back until I was 42. During this time period I thought Christians were a bunch of phony hypocrites. because all of the Christians I knew were really "Christians" in name only.

Hey, Chris. Did you see my note to you in "Reinventing the Wheel"?

joecool wrote:Yesterday, a parent gave me some materials to look over for possible use in school. It was a bit dated, being 17 years old, but the science arguing against evolution was good. I dug a little deeper and found that it came from a "patriarchal" ministry. The founder believes that all women must stay at home, no ifs, ands, or buts. And he has a rather large following, more for that philosophy than his homeschool materials.

It also turns out that he's currently awaiting a civil trial, brought about by his kids'  former nanny, who claims that he sexually abused her for several years. While he did issue a carefully worded apology, his board of directors cut him loose. And his church "excommunicated" (their word) him, because he wasn't willing to take full responsibility.

And Christianity gets another black eye. Not only for his deeds, but for his wackadoodle ideas.

There is some basis for the division of labor in the curse of man and when Paul writes 1 Timothy 5:8,14 KJV. If thats his core doctrine or focus it's usually the sign of a cult.

Claymore wrote:Well, people find plenty "wrong" with Organized Denominations.  This is generally when the Denomination is willing to cover up impropriety "for the better common good".

However,

Something that Organized Denominations CAN be useful for is in attempting to limit the damage done by Wingnuts and Wackadoodles.  In the Pentecostal World, you have to be careful about the line between "Freedom of Worship" and "Going Off the Rails".  Catholics, Lutherans, and Methodists have a much easier time of keeping their Clergy within the guidelines of their religions.

I believe that our Pastor put it well,

"We ARE a Pentecostal Church, but we don't want to be a Cereal Church............ full of Fruits, Nuts, and Flakes."

If you ask most pentecostals about Azusa street 1906 they will speak well of it though Charles Parham the so called father of the modern pentecostal movement denounced it as over emotionalism.

Problem with keeping the cereal elements away is most are taught to ignore sola scriptura in favor of a new fresh word. All I need is in between gen 1:1 and Rev 22:21.

joecool wrote:Hey, Chris. Did you see my note to you in "Reinventing the Wheel"?

no, not until just now

ccm2361 wrote:

joecool wrote:Hey, Chris. Did you see my note to you in "Reinventing the Wheel"?

no, not until just now

Bad bad admin...

ccm2361 wrote:Sadly, anyone can say they are a Christian, but that doesn't mean they ARE a Christian.
I have met & work with quite a few of these "Christians".  
They say they are Christians, but seemingly make no effort to follow Christ.
They swear, take the Lord's name in vain, tell crude jokes etc. (I am sure you fellows know the sort )

It always seems to be this sort of "Christian" that ends up giving Christianity a black eye.


I parted company with the Lord at age 17 & didn't come back until I was 42. During this time period I thought Christians were a bunch of phony hypocrites. because all of the Christians I knew were really "Christians" in name only.

Aren't Canada and the USA "Christian" nations?

We took the term "Christian" out of our school's mission statement recently. It mentioned something about "Christian" Parents. That label was hard to nail down and It limited us as to who we could let in. so now it reads" Our School exists to assist parents committed to fulfilling their God-given mandate to raise, educate, and train their children in a biblical worldview to become active disciples of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Much better. ​

Canadarangers wrote:

ccm2361 wrote:Sadly, anyone can say they are a Christian, but that doesn't mean they ARE a Christian.
I have met & work with quite a few of these "Christians".  
They say they are Christians, but seemingly make no effort to follow Christ.
They swear, take the Lord's name in vain, tell crude jokes etc. (I am sure you fellows know the sort )

It always seems to be this sort of "Christian" that ends up giving Christianity a black eye.


I parted company with the Lord at age 17 & didn't come back until I was 42. During this time period I thought Christians were a bunch of phony hypocrites. because all of the Christians I knew were really "Christians" in name only.

Aren't Canada and the USA "Christian" nations?

We took the term "Christian" out of our school's mission statement recently.  It mentioned something about  "Christian" Parents. That label was hard to nail down and It limited us as to who we could let in.  so now it reads"  Our School exists to assist parents committed to fulfilling their God-given mandate to raise, educate, and train their children in a biblical worldview to become active disciples of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Much better. ​

In other words "followers of the Way"!

joecool wrote: A former youth pastor was the one who brought gold dust and feathers to our church....News came today that the AG district office pulled his accreditation within Montana....He and his flock responded by leaving the AG...

Update: Turns out that our district owns the church property, so they have to vacate the premises. That will make it harder to draw in more people.

OOPS.

"When you're walking on eggs, don't hop!"

(Dr. Leonard McCoy, Star Trek)

We had that same thing happen here with one of our mega churches. District owns the building and the property. They just get to maintain it and make it pretty. Kind of like what we do with our RR campgrounds.

GRIN!

Nothing like having the last word.

Mark Jones

joecool wrote:

joecool wrote: A former youth pastor was the one who brought gold dust and feathers to our church....News came today that the AG district office pulled his accreditation within Montana....He and his flock responded by leaving the AG...

Update: Turns out that our district owns the church property, so they have to vacate the premises. That will make it harder to draw in more people.

Claymore wrote:OOPS.

"When you're walking on eggs, don't hop!"

(Dr. Leonard McCoy, Star Trek)

Just back from a long road trip. We spent one overnight with old friends, who were Ranger and Missionette leaders with us back in the day. In fact, they're still involved after 30 years. (Wish we were.)

After we drove away, my wife said she had a conversation with the lady about Bethel Church, the gold dust (and more) place. Turns out she had made a special trip out there and was still gushing over it. My wife tried to open her eyes to what was really going on, but she wasn't having any of it. Sigh.

joecool wrote:Just back from a long road trip. We spent one overnight with old friends, who were Ranger and Missionette leaders with us back in the day. In fact, they're still involved after 30 years. (Wish we were.)

After we drove away, my wife said she had a conversation with the lady about Bethel Church, the gold dust (and more) place. Turns out she had made a special trip out there and was still gushing over it. My wife tried to open her eyes to what was really going on, but she wasn't having any of it. Sigh.

Much discernment is lacking today. Some people always looking for a sign, wonder, or something flashy.

1 Corinthians 13:11 KJV
[11] When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.

My wife went to Pensicola during the revivals they were having. They took a group of girls and the girls had the shakes for about a week after that. I thought at the time that was weird. Nothing really came out of it. Pasto left it alone. He said I don't know what that is or anything about it. Judge the fruit of it is all he really said. A few weeks later the girls were back to being youth and the shaking thing was a reminder that I don't know or understand it all. GRIN!

I have seen flesh saying it was the Spirit and Spirt Acts saying it was the flesh. I am just going to have to say let's judge the fruit of it.

Who am I that I tell God how he can or can't behave. The old JOB thing rolls through my mind.

Our Pastor said..do you know about 90% of the church / Nation believe in Jesus... so does the devil. HE said it's the disciples that daily follow Christ that are what Jesus will come back for. Go therefor and make Disciples.... it's a good point there. I see all kinds of folks that believe they are saved yet they are not disciples of Christ. When our every thought is about self there is little room for a life of discipleship.

Our nation. Our church is in trouble. Me, myself and I are ruling and reigning our lives.

Mark Jones wrote:My wife went to Pensicola during the revivals they were having.  They took a group of girls and the girls had the shakes for about a week after that.  I thought at the time that was weird.  Nothing really came out of it.  Pasto left it alone.  He said I don't know what that is or anything about it.  Judge the fruit of it is all he really said.  A few weeks later the girls were back to being youth and the shaking thing was a reminder that I don't know or understand it all.  GRIN!

I have seen flesh saying it was the Spirit and Spirt Acts saying it was the flesh.  I am just going to have to say let's judge the fruit of it.

Who am I that I tell God how he can or can't behave.  The old JOB thing rolls through my mind.  

Our Pastor said..do you know about 90% of the church / Nation believe in Jesus... so does the devil.  HE said it's the disciples that daily follow Christ that are what Jesus will come back for.  Go therefor and make Disciples....  it's a good point there.  I see all kinds of folks that believe they are saved yet they are not disciples of Christ.  When our every thought is about self there is little room for a life of discipleship.  

Our nation. Our church is in trouble.  Me, myself and I are ruling and reigning our lives.  

I would be leary of such residual physical effects without any change in the heart or actions of those involved.  All of the things pentecostal/charismatics embrace like slain in the Spirit, healings, and tongues have been reported in Hindu Kundalini rituals too. I don't recall lingering physical effects or slayings in the spirit in the bible. If I am wrong show me examples. If the girls are not in control of themselves its a red flag. We often say who am I to put God in a box. Well he does nothing he hasn't already told his prophets he would do. Amos 3:7 KJV
[7] Surely the Lord God will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets. Before we know it we are barking like dogs and clucking like chickens. We can't say nay about it for fear of "boxing God in".

1 Corinthians 14:32-33 KJV
[32] And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets. [33] For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.

Our church's Fall small group offerings were available for sign-ups yesterday... minus one of them. It turns out that the gold dust ex-elder was approved by pastor to teach one. But someone saw it Thu night at worship band practice. After an exchange of texts with pastor, the class was pulled.

What was the class about? There wasn't a book or curriculum (maybe not even the Bible) to review. His class was an opportunity for people to share their supernatural experiences with each other.

Our pastor is very much aware of what we all went through before his arrival. How could he approve it? More to come, I'm sure.