Gold Dust and Feathers

Claymore wrote: Later, when I spoke to the Pastor, I told him that I had been A/G and Southern Church of God for the past 40 years, and that even though I realized that this was an Orthodox Protestant Church, I appreciated that he didn't use his sermon time to tear down the Pentecostal/Charismatic Denominations.

I wish there weren't so many Protestant denominations out there. All it does is give ammo to atheists and agnostics, saying that if there's not much we can agree on, then the Gospel must be disagreeable. It is so incredibly rare for churches in the same town to work together on mutual concerns. Heaven forbid that we should team up and risk losing a single person to another church.

United we stand, divided we fall.

Our church has a decent-sized library of donated Christian-based novels and non-fiction. The pastor recently reviewed it and removed a few things that were questionable or from unsound authors. I sure appreciate that.

Back in the really hard days of our church, I had to fight hard not to leave. At some point, I steeled myself to stick with it. "This is my church and I'm going to outlast the pastors." These days, however, I'm able to say "This is our church, and I want the pastors to outlast me."

joecool wrote:

Claymore wrote: Later, when I spoke to the Pastor, I told him that I had been A/G and Southern Church of God for the past 40 years, and that even though I realized that this was an Orthodox Protestant Church, I appreciated that he didn't use his sermon time to tear down the Pentecostal/Charismatic Denominations.

I wish there weren't so many Protestant denominations out there. All it does is give ammo to atheists and agnostics, saying that if there's not much we can agree on, then the Gospel must be disagreeable. It is so incredibly rare for churches in the same town to work together on mutual concerns. Heaven forbid that we should team up and risk losing a single person to another church.

United we stand, divided we fall.  

A lot of shenanigans in the middle ages caused a lot division. Think of the churches as wheat With a lot of weeds dividing them. I think we were better off before Rome adopted Christianity.

RRCmdrBennett wrote: A lot of shenanigans in the middle ages caused a lot division. Think of the churches as wheat With a lot of weeds dividing them. I think we were better off before Rome adopted Christianity.

True that. I've been saying for a few years that the church needs a thinning out. Separating the wheat from the chaff, so to speak. There's too much dead wood preventing growth. But as you say, the weeds are more dangerous. They are choking out the truth, replacing it with secular socialism.

RRCmdrBennett wrote: A lot of shenanigans in the middle ages caused a lot division. Think of the churches as wheat With a lot of weeds dividing them. I think we were better off before Rome adopted Christianity.

There would not be ONE bible in existence, today.  Every bible that we have is descended from those hand-transcribed bibles that came from the monks in monasteries, transcribed in the Middle Ages.

If not them,  WHO?  

The only persons who could read and write were Professionals: Royalty, Government Officials, and Clergy.

The only ones who could afford to support these monks devoting their full-time expertise to transcribing bibles were the "corrupt" Roman Catholic Church.

It averaged a FULL YEAR for a monk, working full-time, to hand-transcribe ONE BIBLE.  

That made the equivalent cost of a Bible about $60,000.00 to $80,000.00 in todays money.  THAT is why the Bibles had metal bindings that were closed with keys, and were chained to the altars (it was NOT to keep the common people from reading them, as some anti-Papist conspiracy buffs would have you believe -- no one in the village could read the Bible except for the Priest, anyway).

Additionally, there is NOT ONE Christian Denomination that doesn't have its lineage (directly or indirectly) to either the Roman Catholic or Greek/Russian Orthodox Church.  Whether your church is an off-shoot of the Lutherans, Anglicans, Amish, Puritans, or whatever … at one time, they were a break-off of the Roman Catholic Church.

Even if you declare yourself to be a "Full Bible" Church, and so claim that you have no ties to any Orthodox Christian Church, the Bible that you base your faith on is descended from the 1455 Johann Gutenberg Bible, which is a form of the Latin Vulgate.

It's like saying that the world would be better off, if there had never been a Roman Empire.  If not for it, we would not have the European Road System and European Narrow Railroad Gauge, our Alphabet, the base words for French, Italian, Spanish, and much of English, the measurement system of Foot/Yard/Mile, and even the caliber used in our Firearm Barrels, Plumbing by joining ceramic pipes together and sealing them with lead, Central Heating and Air Conditioning, Heated Swimming Pools, the Arch that is still used in buildings, bridges, and railroad trestles today, Crowned Roads with a gravel bed and a variety of stones that allowed them to withstand traffic for over a thousand years, and the American form of Government with a President and a Congress.

Who, but GOD, could have come up with the idea of using the most powerful pagan empire in the world - the empire that mercilessly killed Christians in the Colosseum for Afternoon Entertainment and even imprisoned and beheaded the Apostle Paul -- to take Christianity from being a small perfection of the Jewish religion, that essentially had only 7 churches around the Mediterranean Sea and Macedonia, and spreading Christianity (even with its Roman influences) throughout all of Italy, Germany, France, England, Ireland, and even throughout the Baltic Nations and Russia to the Pacific Ocean, and eventually to North and South America, through Spanish & French Missionaries and other European settlers?  (God thing?)

There were abuses of power with both systems, but without those systems, we would have NOTHING today.  We would have the same system of demon-worship as the 1400's Incas or the 1600's Africans, running around in grass skirts and loin cloths and riding in hollowed tree trunks for transportation.

There was plenty wrong with it, but it was the best thing going, at the time, and it brought us to where we are today.

And if you want to tear down statues of Priests, Missionaries, or Explorers because you have a problem with the imperfections of these prior leaders, then go to Portland, Seattle, or D.C.   I'm sure that they'll appreciate the help.

Claymore wrote: There were abuses of power with both systems, but without those systems, we would have NOTHING today.  We would have the same system of demon-worship as the 1400's Incas or the 1600's Africans, running around in grass skirts and loin cloths and riding in hollowed tree trunks for transportation.

I used to mull over a question that bounced around in my head. Why is it that advanced civilization arose primarily between 20 and 50 degrees latitude in the north? If it's climate-related, then why not in that same range in the southern hemisphere? And it was also primarily between longitudes 10 degrees west and 40 degrees east. My math will be a little rough, but that's an area that covers less than 3% of the earth's surface.

Why the accelerated jump from grass skirts to space suits, and tree trunks to passenger liners? I'm sure that every region has had its share of potential Galileos and Newtons. But they never rose above the rest of the population. Why is that? It's like being marooned on a desert isle without having the benefit of the Professor there. No creation of technology and resulting advancements.

It would take a lot of research, but I'm sure that the answer lies within the church.

It is interesting that the Minoan Empire pre-dated the Greeks by 700 years in dominating Trade and the Mediterranean Sea. However, their cities were destroyed/crippled by a volcano, and for decades their crops suffered by the weather effects of the volcanic ash (CLIMATE CHANGE? 2,700 YEARS AGO?).

However, in short-order, they were replaced by the Greek Empire, and 500 years after that, the Roman Empire.

So, even though these empires may have been crippled or destroyed by disease, war, volcanos, or climate, there has always been a fledgling civilization, waiting in the wings, to fill the void.

(Oh. Please excuse my horrible Western-Centric Bias.)

joecool wrote:

It would take a lot of research, but I'm sure that the answer lies within the church.      

GOD THING?

WHO in their right mind would take an offshoot of Judaism, from a small oppressed, relatively insignificant dusty corner of the Roman Empire and put it in events that had the same Empire that attempted to exterminate it and execute its Saints, Apostles, & Missionaries would eventually adopt it and spread its influence to (and past) the edges of known civilization?

Not the way that "I" would have done it -- but God generally doesn't do it "my" way.

I just became my church's Small Group Coordinator, in order to take it off the pastor's shoulders. Spent some time going through a couple of closets to see what was available in order to save money. My research found that two curriculum sets came from sketchy pastors who have perverted God's Word and have strong ties to Bethel Church.

A purge is in order. Time for a dumpster fire. I am so sick of the crap that our former pastors brought in to the church. I feel like I have found a couple of hidden idols in our camp. Maybe this is why it's taking us so long to get out of the wilderness.

A friend recently sent me a link to an article written by someone in the Church of Christ hierarchy. In short, he believes that his denomination will essentially die out within a generation. Membership is declining, pastors aren't preaching the tough messages, Revelation isn't being taught from, etc.

It had me thinking about my church's experience between 5-10 years ago. What if God allowed us to go through that trial, which became like a refining fire, in order to come out the other side in better spiritual shape? We now have a pastor that sticks with Scripture, preaches the tough messages, and is preparing us for the end times. We didn't have that before. The Rapture is closer than ever before, the harvest is at hand, and we have enough workers for our area.

Are we coming into a Pre-Tribulation Turmoil, or are we coming into another Great Awakening?

Or Both?

I see how the world is worshiping Evil and condemning Good, at the same time that our preachers are understanding the actual Original Context of the Jewish and Greek Language used in the Scriptures, to make them come alive.

It looks to me that:

If you are seeking Enlightenment, it is almost at your fingertips, but

If you want to worship Baal, the World will honor you with high Praise & Approval.

Fox News had a story this morning about a Christian singer-activist who announced a 50-state tour in 2023. His focus is on telling people that Jesus is the answer, not any political party. That's good, as far as it goes. Then I thought his name sounded familiar.

Sean Feucht is a worship leader at Bethel Church. (If you're not up on them, read this thread.) I then saw something that made me dig a little deeper. Feucht is also the founder of Burn 24-7, which our "gold dust and feathers" youth pastor got the kids involved in. Until just now, I didn't know it was linked to Bethel.

Be the watchman on the wall, guys. If Feucht brings his tour to your area, you are forewarned.