GIR Experiment 2014

I had a meeting before pm service last night with my CE Director. We had previously discussed issues with the Wed night boys and girls clubs. Talk of going coed was floated.

Officially we're going run wed clubs coed for a trial period of 4 months. We'll evaluate and decide by Christmas break if we will keep it coed or return to separate clubs.

Welcome to my world fellow outcast

I support the initiative but know it will be a whole new world for me having been old school for 34 years!

Last Sun we had another meeting with our CE Director. We're going to offer Royal Rangers a 30 min premeeting time from 6:30-7pm in the old room we met in prior. This time period will only be the 5 min opening and 25 mins for a program feature. The feature might be a merit, event preparation, campcraft skills, or marching & formation commands training. Then the 7-8:30pm coed program will cover their requirement for a bible lesson, recreation, devotion, etc. We will be opening up the early half hour of Royal Rangers time to girls. If girls join in we'll outfit them with a tee shirt, vest, and let them use their old navy blue skirts from M'ettes. That was another point she made was that M'ettes is DEAD. She wanted to keep the Royal Rangers ministry going in some way shape or form.

We discussed a name for the coed 7-8:30pm program. I threw out the idea to call it "High Adventures".

RRCmdrBennett wrote: We discussed a name for the coed 7-8:30pm program. I threw out the idea to call it "High Adventures".

Careful. National is always looking for a new fundraising venue. Getting sued for trademark infringement won't be fun.

What trademark is there for that name?

High Adventure was the name for the RR quarterly.

You said High Adventures. Get it going Dan. RTK all those boys and girls for Jesus.

Mark Jones

I was thinking of JB's initial name for Royal Rangers when it was just being formed.

Hey guys.

What is the status of the GIR experiment? is it still going?

Was it something I said??? no one wants to answer my previous post. that's not a good sign.

Maybe Chris missed it initially. The current post he probably didn't see due to illness. His church went coed.

Right.

Chris is our G.I.R. Expert.

Back, 2 years ago, he was working about 32 hours per week, and always available in the Forum to give guidance and answer questions.

Now, he's working 60 hours per week, owns his house, and we never see him (except when he's home, sick, and then he's no fun).

They tolerate me in his absences 

In Europe, they make coed outposts work.

We try to open special events up to girls.  When we have a Firearms Safety Course, the girls always get a special invitation.  We also allow them to fire the NRA Qualification Courses using the Rangers' BB-Guns, Air Rifles, & Ammunition, and the Rangers pay for their shooting medals & awards.

However,

I have found that, when we have classes that involve basic "merit" materials (like tool-craft or map reading), the girls start to fidget and say, "BORING!".  They would rather color and make Rainbow Unicorn crafts.

They are definitely a different audience.

In the ER age group the girls often out do the boys. Mainly because the boys are still triping over their own feet while most of the girls have already been through those awkward times.

Really no good reason for them to be separated except the powers that be have made it so. They could change if they wanted it changed.

There would need to be some changes in the supervision part as there are times when a woman needs to be attended to with a woman and a man needs to be attended to with a man. It's rare but it does happen.

Mainly in tick removals.

Still considering all the events we have been on with mixed groups no real issues have come out of it. Keep it moral. Keep the 3 person rule and it works.

Mark Jones

I still disagree with you guys. Respectfully of course. I think it's important to have time for boys and girls to do activities without worrying about what the opposite sex is doing or thinking about them. There's a bond developed with each other when not worrying about girls!

I have no problem at all with coed activities every now and then, but not all the time. I would also point to the emasclation of men in our current culture as another reason to do as much as possible to foster manliness. Maybe I'm super old fashion, but I just don't think little boys develop as much masculinity when they're always around little girls. There needs to be some separation. I don't care what the liberals try to convince us of, they're NOT the same.

I've even been reading about the females that supposedly made it through Ranger training, but their records were destroyed or lost or something. Hmmm.

I just can't quantify why there's such an attack on gender separation. Why can't we all just appreciate the differences between the sexes instead of trying so hard to act like they don't exist.

I agree with everybody. If a church doesn't have enough volunteers, or even kids, I believe it would be okay to have a "GIR" outpost. But once you've grown enough, separate the boys and girls. And if there are tears when girls have to leave Rangers, done right, Missionettes can be just as challenging and fun.

Canadarangers wrote:Hey guys.  

What is the status of the GIR experiment?  is it still going?

Sorry I must have missed this.

Yes, our Outpost has been coed since August 2010

Rangers is in about 85 countries & is coed in about 75-80% of them & works pretty well.  As with anything there are pros & cons.

PROS
Most of the Girls who come over from MPACT/Missionettes type programs (where they just sit around & talk) really like Rangers, because they get to be up doing things.  Some of my most committed & enthusiastic Rangers have been girls for this reason.

Having girls around forces the guys to "up their game" in the behavior department. which is a handy life skill (How to behave in mixed company) 

Girls who have come from boring programs like MPACT may out advance the boys do to the higher enthusiasm level......which usually spurs the boys on to "up their game" in that area & stir up some friendly competition Not that advancement is end all/be all but a little competition can be a good thing.

CONS
INITIALLY there will be a distraction/ show off factor as boys get used to having girls in their Ranger zone. This will start to fade once the newness wears off (after about 4-6 weeks) & will be gone by 10-12 weeks in.

Recreation: you have to be careful about games or activities with a lot physical contact (like wrestling)

Gender issue topics are harder to deal with

Recommendation
Ideally its  best if you can have a time during the meeting where you break up into groups (boys with male leaders & girls with female leaders) to have a time to talk more freely.

If Yuth can do it RR can too. Its a different culture and upbringing between there and here. One thing I picked up sociology is we assign work and interests by gender. Checkout the toy dept stores. Boys have action figures girls have dolls. There are some that do dig guns and hunting. I had a lady Uber rider surprise me when she said she bagged her first deer at age 9 with her dad. Said how good deer stew was he made.  I totally profiled her wrong.

RRCmdrBennett wrote:If Yuth can do it RR can too. Its a different culture and upbringing between there and here. One thing I picked up sociology is we assign work and interests by gender. Checkout the toy dept stores. Boys have action figures girls have dolls. There are some that do dig guns and hunting. I had a lady Uber rider surprise me when she said she bagged her first deer at age 9 with her dad. Said how good deer stew was he made.  I totally profiled her wrong.

Never implied that girls can't do things like camp, hike, shoot, hunt, etc. They can, and can do very well at it. I'm talking about something much deeper than surfacy activities. Something that goes down into the gender identification issue. I'm not implying that all is lost in both the masculinity of boys and the femininity of girls if they're combined in one group. I am extending the thought that it's just "one more thing" in that atrack on gender uniqueness.

I do agree with Joecool in that you do the best you can for the youngsters at your church. If a combined group is best because of attendance of both children and adults, then you do what needs to be done. I'm not attacking anyone who disagrees with me on this issue either. I'm not a liberal, so if you chose a different way, that's your choice. I'm also not an isolationist, so I will at least make my case. What's done with it is of no consequence to me.

Dan, I'm surprised that you would use "youth" as an example after decrying it as a failure all the time. There's got to be more of a reason than just pizza parties that cause the extreme fall away that the Barna group reports after high screwl.

IMO, there are lots of reasons for this fall away, and for the general degradation of our culture. The family unit is #1 on the list! But there are many other contributors as well. When you look at a situation, ask yourself how many of the details align with modern cultural ideas. How did we get here, and how can we get back?!?

Once again, I am not suggesting a total separation of the genders because there are times that coed activities do benefit development. My point is that there needs to be SOME time where they're separate. Boys and girls are around each other all the time. Schools are coed. Families are coed outside of a single parent situation. When, pray tell, do girls get quality "girl time" with godly women teaching them how to become a godly woman? And even more serious given the state of males in our culture, when do boys get quality "man time" with godly men to learn how to be MEN?

More often than not, a single parent situation involves a boy(s) being raised by a mom. They're not getting male bonding at home with a father (many times that doesn't even happen in homes where a dad because he doesn't have a clue). They're not getting it in school. When are they getting it? And then you want to remove the one time a week when he can be surrounded by boys and men?

Pointing to countries around the world as examples doesn't do anything for me either. Do you really want to be patterned after those countries other than to make a case for what you want in one area?

Merry Christmas.
Boys will be boys and girls will be Girls.

I think there are a lot of boys that would be better served to be assigned "why camping" by Johnnie Barnes.

When I see the softness in boys it's a warning signal to me. I think we hurt our boys more by never expecting them to get dirty or face a hardship. The boys that never face a challenge outside their comfort zone in my experience often have a very soft side to them they would be better not to explore.

I had one of my young men in my group 2 weekends ago. He is a good young man. Yet he was in one of those questioning sound advice versus...I am too lazy to do what I am asked to do. He made his choice and I warned him 3 times of his choice. He grew from it by experience.

I think we do a bigger disservice to our boys in not expecting them to go outside and get hot, tired and dirty.

My little ole two cents.
Mark Jones

Philip, I wasn't saying Youth is highly successful at retention just they are capable of doing coed events. To foreign countries I'm comparing Christian Scouting Royal Rangers in Germany to Christian Royal Rangers USA. These other Royal Rangers I'm comparing to are Christian too.

other then the fact that RRGER is fully co-ed, what are the differences between it and RRUSA?

Canadarangers wrote:other then the fact that RRGER is fully co-ed, what are the differences between it and RRUSA?

Not really much as far as I can tell except they haven't gone away from their niche of being a Christian Scouting ministry.

ccm2361 wrote:

Canadarangers wrote:Hey guys.  

What is the status of the GIR experiment?  is it still going?

Sorry I must have missed this.

Yes, our Outpost has been coed since August 2010

Rangers is in about 85 countries & is coed in about 75-80% of them & works pretty well.  As with anything there are pros & cons.

PROS
Most of the Girls who come over from MPACT/Missionettes type programs (where they just sit around & talk) really like Rangers, because they get to be up doing things.  Some of my most committed & enthusiastic Rangers have been girls for this reason.

Having girls around forces the guys to "up their game" in the behavior department. which is a handy life skill (How to behave in mixed company) 

Girls who have come from boring programs like MPACT may out advance the boys do to the higher enthusiasm level......which usually spurs the boys on to "up their game" in that area & stir up some friendly competition Not that advancement is end all/be all but a little competition can be a good thing.

CONS
INITIALLY there will be a distraction/ show off factor as boys get used to having girls in their Ranger zone. This will start to fade once the newness wears off (after about 4-6 weeks) & will be gone by 10-12 weeks in.

Recreation: you have to be careful about games or activities with a lot physical contact (like wrestling)

Gender issue topics are harder to deal with

Recommendation
Ideally its  best if you can have a time during the meeting where you break up into groups (boys with male leaders & girls with female leaders) to have a time to talk more freely.

Agrees totally, Singapore has been running Rangers with Girls apart from recreation. It is always good to have girls in the group to share their views. A different perspectives that sometimes failed to see and vice versa. It makes the lesson more relevant rather than theorical based only.

I have observed how they treat and respect each others in meeting, games and activities.

In my outpost we have females commanders who have gone through LMA, NTC and even earned their FCF. Whom have very much contributed in the mentoring of the female rangers.

All in all, it takes a willing heart with compassion to reach, teach and keep generations for Christ. It might be toughin the begining but things will just get better. =)