Re: May thread

[Phillip Gross]

This country gave an inch years ago. Now the enemy is taking miles at a time for sure. The saddest thing is that some people still don't recognize it for the miles that they are... They still think we're dealing with inches!

I believe we CAN help out, but only time will tell. This may sound weird, but I think that some of the issue, outside of RR 2.0, is that RR is perceived as a ministry OF a particular church instead of a ministry AT a particular church. BSA meets at many churches, may even be supported by a church, but isn't that churches specific ministry per se. I think that most people who attend church regularly are loyal to one church. Their church.

We're still a small outpost at 12-14 boys at an outpost meeting, but we only had 5 boys at our church when we started. We've picked up one family because of RR, so we now have 6 of 12-14 boys from OUR church. The rest to to other churches, or not at all on a Sunday. We (as in our Cmdr's and especially our pastor) look at RR as a scouting ministry to reach out to boys rather than simply something to serve the children of our congregation. We're not even concerned whether our specific church is grown from this. Our main goal is reaching out to young men who desperately need to know what it means to be a godly man. The main goal is His kingdom rather than our little church.

The issue is that most people have a "build my church" mentality instead of a "build His kingdom" mentality. RR seems to be very church specific in nature whereas BSA transcended specific churches and appealed to a broad audience.

I'm not suggesting watering down anything in regards to teaching about Father, Son OR Holy Spirit. And I know that when it comes to truth, there will always be few that go that way. BUT, even within believers we're cutting out a lot of potential people with one simple thing. Wednesday evening meetings.

Someone who's loyal to a church is less likely to go to another church on a Wednesday night. I wouldn't want my kids going somewhere else than I was. The only reason that over 50% of our boys cone from outside the church is because our Outpost meetings are on another night.

I understand for many, changing nights would never be an option. I'm just giving my opinion about why I think it'll be difficult for RR to ever pick up very many that leave BSA.

[Claymore]

I think that getting boys in Rangers who are uncomfortable with BSA's new position all depends................

We have heard reports of predatory men who have become Scoutmasters and used the position for their own purposes.

I know that this ruling applies to members, not to Leaders, but if this turns into a problem, and parents are uncomfortable about their boys being at BSA overnight activities, where would be the logical place for them to look?

As the saying goes, "In the midst of Adversity, lies Opportunity."

[Phillip Gross]

I agree with what you're saying. I guess if I boil my random thoughts down, there are two issues I see standing in the way.

#1 BSA members want a straight up (pardon the pun) scouting program. I think they'd be fine with our Bible merits and emphasis on God as long as the scouting side is strong. As you well know, you can't teach and keep if you can't reach...

#2 Baptists, Lutherans, Methodists, etc are usually very loyal to their church/denominations and are equally wary of full gospel organizations. Getting them to an AG, IPHC, COG, or other non-denominational church on a Wednesday night instead of 1srt Baptist of.... is gonna be difficult at best.

[RRCmdrBennett]

They can order materials and and run their own outpost. I never thought of them coming to our meetings but have their own.

[Phillip Gross]

You're exactly right about that. I was more thinking of situations where the church doesn't necessarily run the program, but simply allowed the BSA to meet there.

To me BSA (of old) wasn't as much a product of one particular church or denomination as it was simply a program that complimented a church and worked within the moral boundaries of Christianity.

Could a RR outpost operate more as a third party program instead of a direct ministry of a church? We had to supply our statement if faith when we were trying to charter because we're non-denominational. How would an outside group ever start an outpost. And last time I checked, there aren't a lot of denominations that RR will except.

[ccm2361]

To me BSA (of old) wasn't as much a product of one particular church or denomination as it was simply a program that complimented a church and worked within the moral boundaries of Christianity.

You are absolutely right

Could a RR outpost operate more as a third party program instead of a direct ministry of a church? We had to supply our statement if faith when we were trying to charter because we're non-denominational. How would an outside group ever start an outpost. And last time I checked, there aren't a lot of denominations that RR will except.

To me, the answer is they wont. The only "gain" RR might see is if a few AG churches that were running scouting return to Rangers.

Assuming that there ARE any AG churches using BSA

[RRCmdrBennett]

There are some using BSA I've heard.

What is my moderator tab now saying Banned...

[RRCmdrBennett]

If you're not on the approved list you can still buy tracclub and run unchartered even attend pow wow unchartered. Nobody asks an unchartered outpost for beliefs. You could be catholic, SDA, or JW and run unchartered nowadays with full access but 15% more.

[ccm2361]

What is my moderator tab now saying Banned...

[Phillip Gross]

If you're not on the approved list you can still buy tracclub and run unchartered even attend pow wow unchartered. Nobody asks an unchartered outpost for beliefs. You could be catholic, SDA, or JW and run unchartered nowadays with full access but 15% more.

That's true. The one thing I'm unclear on about unchartered outposts is how they get their number. I can see an outpost that used to charter deciding to stop chartering and continue using their old number.

[RRCmdrBennett]

You can only get an op #if you charter. Numbers are unique within their own districts. If you can't charter you are never issued an op#. You could wear your geo patch without numerals.

[Claymore]

Being more "inclusive" of other believers could be a great opportunity for the expansion of the Ranger Program.

My personal belief is the important things to you in Heaven will be:
Do you know God and accept his forgiveness through Jesus?
Do you know God's word that he has given to you?
How many people did you help and how many souls did you bring with you?

I don't think that it is going to be:
How many times did you jump up & down in a Church Service?

Gifts of the Holy Spirit are just that, gifts. God gave them to assist us in our walk and worship.

The Holy Spirit brought much of the Pentecostal movement out of mainline Protestant churches almost 100 yers ago.

If we are so arrogant that we don't think that he can do that today, we are pretty weak Pentecostals.

I think that a Baptist or Methodist Church could start an Outpost, and might-well adhere to Springfield Policy closer than some of us are doing, today (self included).

[RRCmdrBennett]

How far do we go to be inclusive? A little leaven, leaveneth the whole lump. A little spinkling of Rick Warren has gone a long way. Might we restrain or quench the Spirit in our pow wows and services in order to not offend the other believers? Just a few things to ponder before we become more "flexible". Now could a baptist denom take Royal Rangers and create their own chain of command like IPHC and the other nations of the world? Sure, why not. I do recall reading one of the reasons JB founded Royal Rangers was for pentacostals scouts who felt persecuted or ostracized in the BSA.

Reading my history of the pentacostal movement that people who came back from Asuza St revival were outcasted, disfellowshipped, and lost ministerial credentials.

[Claymore]

The first documented events of Pentecostalism and Speaking in tongues was in Topeka, Kansas on January 1, 1901. Azusa Street was not until five years later.

So IT DID NOT START WITH AZUSA STREET.

My Pastor in Milwaukee had a Community Law Enforcement Service one Sunday, each year. Invitations were sent out to all police departments in the Metro Area (population roughly 2 million).

We didn't change our Assembly of God Service one bit, except that the service was decicated to recognizing Public Safety Officers. Officers with Catholic, Lutheran, Methodist, Baptist, and other backgrounds attended.

The service was not watered down, we all worshiped together, and visitors from other denominations told us that they loved it.

Maybe that's why I'm not much on attending District and National Events. Because too many of those in attendance think that they will be the only ones in heaven.

Even though I have my pilot's license, I don't much like hanging around other pilots, either. Because many of them are insufferable snobs.

[RRCmdrBennett]

I'm familar with Topeka. There were incidents going back to 1880's Barney Creek House. That was the precursor to Church of God of Cle, TN founded 1903. I'm not being snobbish just concerned we already Warrenism running heavily in Royal Rangers by our association with him.

[Mark Jones]

Perhaps I missed this in the thread. I don't think the National Office is interested in being a replacement for Scouts. They have been busy trying to throw the "church boyscout program off the bus for 5 years+" I realize it's all about market share but I sure wouldn't figure a scouting group jumping ship to come into Rangers 2.0 It's a long ways from Rangers 1.0.

If we as Rangers back peddled and returned back to our roots of the JB program there would be a easy transition. Today not so easy. I don't think many will want to jump in to the purpose driven I don't like scouts program. GRIN!

I personally don't think the gays have that big of a presence in the scouts. Most of them are not cut out to be scouting...so what less than 1%. To me it's a moot factor. I may be nieve and not know but I just haven't seen this as a big thing around here. It's more of a rant than a reality.

Mark Jones

[RRCmdrBennett]

Depends on the outpost if they are doing JB style or not.

You know how bizness and marketing goes when winds of change are in the air they go back to what works.

Doesn't matter how many gays are there but how many leave because of the few gays.

[RRCmdrBennett]

Parade time!

[ccm2361]

Ahhh 1 day left of a nice 3.5 day weekend

went to a bonfire last night after Prayer. A couple from our church invited everyone at Prayer over. Had a good time.

[Phillip Gross]

Lucky for y'all! I've been working all weekend (even Sunday) on one job or another. Every time I think I'm done, something else pops up. Got up at 5:30 this morning and went out not to get a job done and finally just got home. Hopefully I can enjoy the last half of a day of this weekend....

[Mark Jones]

Hey we had a great Friday night Bday party for my father-in-law. Barbque and campfire. Then Sat from Noon to 4pm went floating and cooked hot dogs along the river bank. 11 folks. 6 Kayaks 1 inflatable kayak and 1 canoe. No flips. Water was just a hair above normal levels. Much lower and we would have been dragging. Was a perfect float.

http://readyrangers.tzo.com/2013FinleyRiverFloat/2013FinleyRiverFloat.htm

Sunday nice sermon from a missionary and then worked at the Ranger Annex from 1pm to 6pm on the Cardboard Boat prop for pow wow.... a boat that is on casters that rolls across the stage. Night 1 it's just the top part of the boat that is paddled through the crowd... it's a cool boat.

Cut out 30 blanks for swords and made 2 patterns.

Put the planking around the boat 5" strips that look like boards going around it. It's coming out even better than I amagined. God is good allt he time.

Working today. Double time and a half... for 8 hours. Pow Wow money. YES!

Mark Jones

[RRCmdrBennett]

Excellent parade. 18 boys and 7 leaders. To my dissapointment my GMA defected to walk with youth. Cool weather with some drops here and there.

[RRCmdrBennett]

[ccm2361]

To my dissapointment my GMA defected to walk with youth.

TRAITOR!

[RRCmdrBennett]

Yes, his mom wasn't happy either. Though he didn't promise he did say yes to me this past week.

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