River Crossings and Other Hiking Obstacles

Looking into a great place to take the outpost backpacking in the SC upstate called Ellicott Rock. http://sherpaguides.com/georgia/mountains/blue_ridge/eastern/ellicott_rock_wilderness.html It's a wilderness area that has a stone marking the point that SC, NC and GA meet. It doesn't have designated camping areas, but rather rules for where not to camp such as no closer than 50ft from any river or marked trail. One of the trails calls for a river crossing that supposedly isn't bad during certain times of the year when the water level is lower than other times. I imagine that summer would be a better time of year than winter for a river crossing, but it got me thinking about the prospect in all weather conditions.

What should be kept in mind for river crossings, especially with kids involved? Any additional equipment to take along that will help with different obstacles?

For the last 40 years, I always went into something thinking "What's the worst possible thing that could happen?" In my latter years in the Navy, they started preaching risk assessment management. Same thing. Being responsible for other people's kids is a lot more stressful than watching out for your shipmates. If you can't take the risk out of something, play it safe. Six inches of fast running water can knock a person down, especially with slippery growth on the river rocks. I'm not saying you can't do it, just saying "over-engineer" your safe solution. (only 1 sailor and no kids hurt on my watch, praise God) 

I definitely plan on always looking for the safest way of doing things. I do still enjoy challenging adventures (fun), so I don't necessarily just want to walk away from a situation unless it is in fact truly too dangerous. Any methods make crossings safer?

- View the river from a higher point to identify shallowest and smoothest stretch; if possible, cross between two bends in an "S"...if you go down, the current will push you into a bank)
- keep boots on (wet feet are better than ankle sprains)
- long pants tend to catch the current
- release chest/belly straps on your backpack (in case you go down, use backpack for floatation...face upstream so your feet hit the rocks instead of your head)
- use a walking stick on the upstream side...the current forces the end into the river bottom
- take short shuffle steps, keep your eyes up for equilibrium

If you think you need to span a rope, or cross as a team, forget it! It's not worth the risk. Of course, someone on this thread is bound to recommend a line-throwing gun, pulleys and a basket. Let's see...anyone have special forces experience? 

Thanks joecool! Exactly the kind of advice I was looking for.

joecool wrote:- View the river from a higher point to identify shallowest and smoothest stretch; if possible, cross between two bends in an "S"...if you go down, the current will push you into a bank)
- keep boots on (wet feet are better than ankle sprains)
- long pants tend to catch the current
- release chest/belly straps on your backpack (in case you go down, use backpack for floatation...face upstream so your feet hit the rocks instead of your head)
- use a walking stick on the upstream side...the current forces the end into the river bottom
- take short shuffle steps, keep your eyes up for equilibrium

If you think you need to span a rope, or cross as a team, forget it! It's not worth the risk. Of course, someone on this thread is bound to recommend a line-throwing gun, pulleys and a basket. Let's see...anyone have special forces experience? 

Where's Claymore...  ?

I was going to state that I have been considering doing a 1-rope bridge (either above the water or in the water) for a river crossing next spring.

Biggest thing is to have a backup life-line on anyone, in case he freezes up.

We already did a 1-rope bridge on our campouts -- over dry ground.

I would like to do "Poncho Rafts", but that may be too advances.

Special Forces Operational Detachment 124

Please expound on a "one rope bridge".

Found some info on the one rope bridge here .

Sorry, I had to go to Church.

Yup! That's it, and probably explained better than I could.

The only thing to add is that there are three different kinds of 1-rope bridges used:

1: Taught Bridge: best for going over the water, gives minimal drop in the rope. Best with a strong Static Rope.

2: Slack Bridge: often used if you have Dynamic Ropes. Because of the stretch, you will be in a low point halfway across. First half of the trip is easy, second half is difficult.

3: In the Water: essentially just a lifeline in the water to keep you from going under or downstream. This is always used with a Carabiner. #'s 1 & 2 can be used with a rappelling seat/harness, monkey crawl, or commando crawl.

What's the difference in Static Ropes and Dynamic Ropes?

Dynamic Ropes have a stretch-factor of approximately 30%. The most well-known Dynamic Rope is Military General-Purpose Nylon Rappelling Rope. It is easier to work with, because it is generally soft, but it is also harder to work with, because you will never have it tight enough that it won't stretch some more when you put it under load.

For SOME uses, a stretching rope is needed, like a safety line, if you fall 40 feet. A static safety line may cause you to break your back when you hit the end of the rope. We used the same dynamic rope for Lowering Lines to jettison our backpacks when parachuting with equipment.

While a Static Rope is often stiffer and harder to tie in knots, it won't stretch NEARLY as much as a Dynamic Rope, so when you first rappel over a ledge, you don't have to do the Shuffle-to-Buffalo 2-step to keep from flipping over backwards.

Also, a Static Rope won't leave you in a big dip over the river (as bad) when doing a 1-rope bridge, if properly loaded.

I see. Thank you.

#3 a lifeline with caribiners is what I had in mind before Joe mentioned SF!

I REALLY think that one of the neatest things that I learned in that training was the Poncho Raft.

Two troops teamed up, laid out a rubber poncho, put your rifles in the poncho, put your boots over the barrel & butt, took off their clothes, except for shorts, placed them and any other equipment in the poncho, then rolled it closed & tied it shut.

Then put that inside of the second man's poncho, roll it closed & tied it shut.

You then both get into the water and use this for a floatation device to cross whatever body of water.

On a water crossing where you were imersed for 15 to 20 minutes, results were the same, if done right:

It would be an effective Floatation Device for 2 men.

Inside of the outer rolled poncho was a few tablespoons of water.

Clothes, weapons, & equipment inside of the second poncho was bone dry.

This could be done with boys in a swimming pool, but they would also wear floation vests.

There was really enough buoyancy to keep two men afloat with all their gear inside? Very interesting! 

I wonder if something similar could be done with individual boys and a trash bag. Put a few things in a trash bag, seal it up, and go float. Most people keep a trash bag(s) in their packs.

During amphib ops, USMC uses Navy-supplied "yoke" life preservers. We'd put them into the landing craft, but they'd never actually wear them. Even when we did a combat conditions landing in Somalia. The design dates back to WWII (and I think some of them were actually that old).

Over the years, the load on a Marine has increased to nearly 100 pounds, so I did a check one day. Put 90 pounds of rocks in a pack, added a preserver and pushed my senior chief into a pool. He went straight to the bottom. We did a second test with 90 pounds of misc. clothing, packages, etc., and he managed to keep his head up. The inherent buoyancy in the packed objects is what made the difference. The preserver wasn't enough on its own.

Phillip Gross wrote:There was really enough buoyancy to keep two men afloat with all their gear inside? Very interesting! 

I wonder if something similar could be done with individual boys and a trash bag. Put a few things in a trash bag, seal it up, and go float. Most people keep a trash bag(s) in their packs.

Really good idea, Phil.

I just wouldn't use those really lightweight bags that most folks pack in with. Those things tear if you look at them hard.

We did 24 river crossings last year in December. Rocks were freezing to our socks.

What ever you do you have to plan for someone to fall in and get wet during cold weather. Imediately have to warm them up and dry them off or they die. All gear must be packed in a dry bag so if they do go in limited water gets in the gear.

2 walking sticks will help out bunches. 3 person crossing at the same time facing each other with arms hanging on...theory is 6 feet in the water.

Have river crossing (crocs work real well) shoes. A Dry towel to dry off feet and put on fresh socks.

Most backpackers wear nylon type clothing..so if you do go in you don't hold water. Cotton kills when wetin cold weather Literlly.

Some of the best times and adventure is crossing a creek that is midleg with your backpack barely out of the water and it's 20 degrees outside. Water feels like pins and needles sticking you.

I can be done and it's an adventure. YET is can get very very serious in seconds You must be ready. IF someone were to fall in let say a boy that had blue jeans on.

I would quickly take a backpacking stove out. fire it up in 10 seconds while he is taking off his clothes pull out a tarp and wrap it around him while he stands over the backpacking stove. Then when he has warmed backup in a few mintues. Get his dry gear out and get him dry and warm again.

I gave out 14 of those emergency blankets. 2.50 each last year and instructed each of the 15 on the trip of this process.

I have never had a life threating situation arise..but if it does. I plan on being more than ready.

Check out our Richland creek trip where we were crossing the creek... it's interesting. It's on you tube. markjonesranger videos.

Mark Jones

One of my more memorable campouts was at a sectional event. Lots of outposts, lots of people, not so much space. A very mellow river, not much more than a creek, was on one side. In the middle of the river was an island, about 30' x 100' in size. I seized the opportunity and claimed the island for my outpost. Sweet.

Lots of great stories.

This next weekend we do a 2 night backpack with 4 river crossings. I am watching the weather closely. With the snow melt this week they will be flowing.

Mark Jones