Breaking in the new guy

ccm2361 wrote:
That says to me that some will do anything to pump up their numbers, even at another ministries expense.

Real "Christian" of them, eh?

Not surprising when $ is involved men will betray their fellowman. Lets not forget $ was how our Lord was betrayed by one of his own apostles.

I believe that, for some, the Numbers & Prestige are as/more important.

I somewhat actually like Mega-Churches, as they tend to have plenty of work and ministries for everyone. So long as they are Mega because they are doing the right thing; not doing the right thing in order to be Mega.

"By their fruit you will recognize them." I'm probably more comfortable in small to medium churches. People can get lost in something too big. But as long as mega people seek out the new attendees and plug them in to smaller groups, it should be okay.

In the Milwaukee Area, we had Elmbrook Church, Pastored by Stuart Briscoe. They averaged about 7,000 per week in attendance.

I wasn't a regular attendee there, but I was impressed by their organization and the numerous Outreach Ministries that they had for people of different ages & circumstances.

I also attended a concert there by the group Avalon, and it was a life-memorable experience.

The church that we left in the Milwaukee Area was Poplar Creek Assembly of God. I think that they averaged about 1,500 per Sunday, in three services.

Claymore wrote:In the Milwaukee Area, we had Elmbrook Church, Pastored by Stuart Briscoe.  They averaged about 7,000 per week in attendance.


The church that we left in the Milwaukee Area was Poplar Creek Assembly of God.  I think that they averaged about 1,500 per Sunday, in three services.

I think our church is at the opposite end of the spectrum at 35 people   

Well, we're getting there.

Our Church down here had been running about 225 in Sunday Attendance.

Now, we're down around 100.

However, we just elected a new Pastor this week, and it sounds like this guy might know how to be an Administrator.

Numbers aren't everything. Usually, you find more truth in smaller numbers. 

When Jesus died and rose again where was the 5000 and 7000 he fed on two separate occasions?  

Rick Warren kept his megachurch I guess he knows something Jesus didn't know...

1st: my apologies on lack of posting. Over the winter I've been busy w/ outpost work.
2nd: I'm in the opposite boat. About a year back our youth pastor made some mistakes serious enough for his services not to be required. Youth largely died then. There are about 6 still coming, down from over 20.
Rangers on the other hand is stable. Where we had the option to move to youth we just maintain the AR Trail thru Master, then Masters start ER Trail

Tom, welcome back.

Congratulations on your Rangers "holding their own" through some rough times.

This is not meant to be a criticism of Youth Pastors, just a generalized observation.

I think that part of the Achilles Heel of "Youth Pastors" is "Youth". We have all made mistakes; probably at a higher rate when we were young; and we have, hopefully, learned form those mistakes & are not repeating them.

Many Youth Pastors are young, and so are learning for the First Time Around, but they are still in a very High Profile Position in the Church.

I think that another advantage that we have is that Royal Rangers are taught to Take Responsibility for our Actions; Learn from it; Correct it; and Carry On. I think that some young non-Ranger Leaders may believe that it would be an admission of Weakness to admit a mistake in order to correct it.

The following is NOT to compare Youth Pastors to President Obama, but...

He is a good example of the above. He had no Executive Leadership Experience, he believed that his ideas are better than those that have been used for the past 240 years, and when a Mistake is made, it is covered-up, not acknowledged; and the Cover-Up can become worse than the Initial Mistake.

Many years ago, a church I attended always had a Labor Day volleyball tournament between Sunday School classes. Playing against the youth group was far from a friendly, casual game. At one point, after spiking a ball into a middle-aged woman's nervous smile, the youth pastor screamed, with spittle flying, "In your face!" Took me a while to get over that. Not sure if the woman ever did. Youth are youth, needing a little more societal seasoning.

I don't get why people think hiring someone who hasn't been an adult very long or long enough to mature is a great idea. The "in your face" taunt reminds me of those  chees it commercials where they wait till the cheese log matures.

My youth pastor, who was and is legitimately about the Father's business rather than his own, has on many occasions said that his role as YP improved as he aged. He transformed from a leader only slightly ahead of his flock into a father figure they could truly respect. 

He isn't one of those that used the youth group as a step in the rung of his climb up through ministry. At 45ish, he's still pursuing the ministry (youth) that God laid on how heart so many years ago. THAT, IMO, is one reason (and maybe THE reason) why he always worked WITH other ministries throughout the years instead of AGAINST. 

I disagree with the common track that our churches seem to put future senior pastors through as if this is any other "company" that requires that the future executives "pay their dues" on the way up... 

When man is trying to elevate himself, he is unable to elevate others. I know that one through experience! Albeit in the secular workplace, it still reaped negative effects that I now regret. Yes, I own the company now, but I had to repair the damaged relationship with my older brother who I hurt deeply on my scramble to capture the power... and that took several years. 

And that account goes to strengthen previous points made. Youthful energy plus a "dynamic" personality minus the wisdom to put it all together can (and usually does) produce disastrous results....

Well Joe, I pray that everyone opens their hearts to the Holy Spirit through this.

I know some think you gotta be near their age to relate to them and befriend them. We can be friends just not in same way. We can have a sorta parental role spiritually which is different than peer to peer relationship.

I was a youth sponsor for a two year tour before Rangers was greenlit. My observation was many sponsors want to be a friend aka peer.
I never accepted that. Youth naturally seek out peers & friends. They don't need another.
But I do understand not wanting to be seen as a dictator to them either. As a sponsor that's not my role either. It's their parents's.
I always found the best view was a 45 degree angle. Not a level 0 peer. Not a 90 parent, but between.
One of the clearest things I did was where the other sponsors wound go by their names,I went by "Coach". (I was a drama coach)

A couple of churches back, I was a relatively new member and walked into a scene one Wed evening. A bunch of older kids and teens were at church early and running back and forth ON the pews. What are you doing?! I exclaimed.
"Just waiting for church to start. Dave doesn't mind." After talking to them about the difference between God's house and their house, I then told them that it's PASTOR Dave. He's your pastor, not your buddy.

Could have heard a pin drop. Years later, on our last night there before moving to Montana, a couple of them came up to me. They said that my impromptu sermon was a turning point for them. You just never know. Coach? Sponsor? Mentor? Like you said, Strods, they don't always need a friend.

Amen to that   

I had enough once of two girls running around the back few pews while altar call was going on. I gave'm a firm sit down o take it outside the sanctuary.

Where are he parents??? I'd've NEVER gotten away with that kind of foolishness. I got my tail whipped for far less!

I agree. My son, at about 5. Got a piece of gum, and when he wasdone with it he stuck it under the seat. I'm sure my eyes shot flames. I had my him get a tissue and clean it himself. Then after service I had him go up to Pastor and apologize. My son was in tears. Pastor forgave him and hugged him.
But my son learned to respect church that day, still does.

Even though my dad isn't serving the Lord now he taught me respect in God's house. If someone else reported something I did I'd get it too. Wasn't none of this automatic defending uour baby like he's perfect angel. Somtimes he could have been less harsh but being too liberal has gotten us so far off track its unreal.

There's got to be balance. Rules without relationship leads to rebellion just like relationship without rules leads to rebellion. Got to be in balance.

Breaking news with the new guy. You might remember that he changed all the Missionette curriculum so that it really wasn't Missionettes anymore. Two of the sponsors handed in their resignation last week, saying they didn't sign up to be glorified craft ladies. Now there's talk that he's panicking and may be willing to let it be real Missionettes again. He's meeting with the women this week.

So many mistakes in 6 months. Chris, how many megabytes can this forum handle?

A shepherd must know his sheep...

joecool wrote:Chris, how many megabytes can this forum handle?

A lot! bring it on!