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Compass Merit
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Compass Merit
by Phillip Gross August 24th 2014, 10:31 pm
I started Compass Merit tonight with my AR's/ER. As y'all know, we're a relatively new outpost so I'm just going through merits regardless of what age they are since they haven't come up through the program.
I got some Walmart specials and found that they aren't the same. We were outside getting bearings and they all showed different degrees facing the same direction. I want to be able to set up a good course for them to go through in this merit, but if I set it up according to one compass and they use another, then they may not be on the correct coordinates.
Are there any reputable compasses out there that don't cost an arm AND a leg?
I got some Walmart specials and found that they aren't the same. We were outside getting bearings and they all showed different degrees facing the same direction. I want to be able to set up a good course for them to go through in this merit, but if I set it up according to one compass and they use another, then they may not be on the correct coordinates.
Are there any reputable compasses out there that don't cost an arm AND a leg?
Phillip Gross- Special Member
- Posts : 2564
Join date : 2013-05-14
Re: Compass Merit
by Claymore August 24th 2014, 11:27 pm
My best luck has been to purchase Chinese "Silva-Type" compasses from eBay for about $5.00 each. Buy the flat see-through (declination is generally consistent, but they are hard to sight through), or the plastic ones with the flip-up mirror.
You will especially have good luck with them having the same declination, if you purchase from the same lot.
The WORST ones that I have found are the look-alike lensatic compasses (metal or plastic). We have some, and they are only good for Show & Tell.
Brand-Name Silvas are good, but expensive, and the company has gone through some ownership squabbles.
Other than that, drop $45.00 for a good military lensatic, or $80.00 for one with a tritium dial.
I put my boys into teams-of-2, so if we have 60 to 70% that many compasses, it is plenty.
You will especially have good luck with them having the same declination, if you purchase from the same lot.
The WORST ones that I have found are the look-alike lensatic compasses (metal or plastic). We have some, and they are only good for Show & Tell.
Brand-Name Silvas are good, but expensive, and the company has gone through some ownership squabbles.
Other than that, drop $45.00 for a good military lensatic, or $80.00 for one with a tritium dial.
I put my boys into teams-of-2, so if we have 60 to 70% that many compasses, it is plenty.
_________________
"Rangers Lead the Way"
18Z, 11B4X
"The last thing that I want to do is to hurt you,...................... but it's still on the list."
Claymore- Special Member
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Location : Northern Mississippi
Re: Compass Merit
by Mark Jones August 25th 2014, 4:31 pm
We have about 15 of the Walmart Silva type compasses. They work pretty well. Main thing is to have NO METAL close by when taking a reading. Belt buckles, tables anything conductive will mess it up.
Make your coordinates points away from each other. IF you have 2 points that are with in a few degrees of each other... it messes them up. Rangers doesn't use the Lenstatic type of compass. They focus on the Silva style.
The Red Compass course in the Ranger Compass merit used to have wrong information in them. So make sure you have a uptodate reference.
Even at that the Red Compass course is confussing to the boys as the points can be too close together.
They would have been better served to make them really easy so the boys would learn success first then make a Compass 2 that had more challenge to it.
I wished Rangers had 1 - 4 levels of merits. Where we taught the same merit like Compass but each level was at a different skill set.
It's good stuff to teach.
Mark Jones
Make your coordinates points away from each other. IF you have 2 points that are with in a few degrees of each other... it messes them up. Rangers doesn't use the Lenstatic type of compass. They focus on the Silva style.
The Red Compass course in the Ranger Compass merit used to have wrong information in them. So make sure you have a uptodate reference.
Even at that the Red Compass course is confussing to the boys as the points can be too close together.
They would have been better served to make them really easy so the boys would learn success first then make a Compass 2 that had more challenge to it.
I wished Rangers had 1 - 4 levels of merits. Where we taught the same merit like Compass but each level was at a different skill set.
It's good stuff to teach.
Mark Jones
Mark Jones- Star member
- Posts : 1921
Join date : 2013-05-16
Age : 65
Location : Springfield Missouri -
Re: Compass Merit
by strods August 25th 2014, 9:49 pm
I echo the same, and recommend the same to parents looking at gear. Starting out just get a good Silva or look alike to train on. Let the boys show an true interest in hiking then can look at an upgrade then.Claymore wrote:My best luck has been to purchase Chinese "Silva-Type" compasses from eBay for about $5.00 each. Buy the flat see-through (declination is generally consistent, but they are hard to sight through), or the plastic ones with the flip-up mirror.
You will especially have good luck with them having the same declination, if you purchase from the same lot.
The WORST ones that I have found are the look-alike lensatic compasses (metal or plastic). We have some, and they are only good for Show & Tell.
Brand-Name Silvas are good, but expensive, and the company has gone through some ownership squabbles.
Other than that, drop $45.00 for a good military lensatic, or $80.00 for one with a tritium dial.
I put my boys into teams-of-2, so if we have 60 to 70% that many compasses, it is plenty.
strods- Senior Member
- Posts : 393
Join date : 2013-05-23
Re: Compass Merit
by strods August 25th 2014, 9:55 pm
Mark Jones wrote:
They would have been better served to make them really easy so the boys would learn success first then make a Compass 2 that had more challenge to it.
I wished Rangers had 1 - 4 levels of merits. Where we taught the same merit like Compass but each level was at a different skill set.
It's good stuff to teach.
Mark Jones
I've felt the same so I've re written the Orienteering merit for our outpost to turn it into a Compass level 2. It also helps with repetition getting it in there.
strods- Senior Member
- Posts : 393
Join date : 2013-05-23
Re: Compass Merit
by Claymore August 25th 2014, 10:10 pm
Good idea!
I have always felt that going from "Basic Compass" to "Orienteering" is a pretty far-leap for kids.
I have always felt that going from "Basic Compass" to "Orienteering" is a pretty far-leap for kids.
_________________
"Rangers Lead the Way"
18Z, 11B4X
"The last thing that I want to do is to hurt you,...................... but it's still on the list."
Claymore- Special Member
- Posts : 2852
Join date : 2013-05-17
Location : Northern Mississippi
Re: Compass Merit
by Phillip Gross August 25th 2014, 10:41 pm
I'd like to see what you've got if you are willing to share it. I used the booklet you made when I did primitive shelters and it was awesome!strods wrote:...I've re written the Orienteering merit for our outpost to turn it into a Compass level 2.
Phillip Gross- Special Member
- Posts : 2564
Join date : 2013-05-14
Re: Compass Merit
by strods August 26th 2014, 11:19 pm
Compass MeritPhillip Gross wrote:I'd like to see what you've got if you are willing to share it. I used the booklet you made when I did primitive shelters and it was awesome!strods wrote:...I've re written the Orienteering merit for our outpost to turn it into a Compass level 2.
Orienteering
Last edited by strods on August 31st 2014, 11:29 am; edited 1 time in total
strods- Senior Member
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Join date : 2013-05-23
Re: Compass Merit
by Mark Jones August 28th 2014, 1:16 pm
I agree. I enjoy reading maps and gps and using a compass and following the headings. Its fun to me. Yet these boys that do the Red Compass merit by the time I got them in Adventure Rangers..they couldn't find a cross on a church with a compass. GRIN!
Yet when we teach it and then get the good at it... it's fun to give them a challenge and have them get to the gold or goal.
I really like Backpacking and dayhiking on the trails with no signs. They have to use the maps and compasses and the GPS. It's good to keep them on grid when they make a trail change. Where are we at? Why do you say so. I get them off to the side so others can't sponge off the others direction finding abilities. Some have it some don't.
Mark Jones
Yet when we teach it and then get the good at it... it's fun to give them a challenge and have them get to the gold or goal.
I really like Backpacking and dayhiking on the trails with no signs. They have to use the maps and compasses and the GPS. It's good to keep them on grid when they make a trail change. Where are we at? Why do you say so. I get them off to the side so others can't sponge off the others direction finding abilities. Some have it some don't.
Mark Jones
Claymore wrote:Good idea!
I have always felt that going from "Basic Compass" to "Orienteering" is a pretty far-leap for kids.
Mark Jones- Star member
- Posts : 1921
Join date : 2013-05-16
Age : 65
Location : Springfield Missouri -
Re: Compass Merit
by Claymore August 28th 2014, 10:32 pm
When Ranger Committee at Fort Benning had us, the Cadre Sergeant would come up to a member of the patrol and say, "Show me where we are on the map".
He would not let you plop down with your finger and cover a half a grid square. He would hand you a single Pine Needle and say, "Show me".
He would not let you plop down with your finger and cover a half a grid square. He would hand you a single Pine Needle and say, "Show me".
Last edited by Claymore on August 28th 2014, 11:53 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Spelling)
_________________
"Rangers Lead the Way"
18Z, 11B4X
"The last thing that I want to do is to hurt you,...................... but it's still on the list."
Claymore- Special Member
- Posts : 2852
Join date : 2013-05-17
Location : Northern Mississippi
Re: Compass Merit
by strods August 28th 2014, 11:49 pm
well I'm in Mark's camp, I like repetition. and with something as fundamental as navigation, I like it well known. So if the worst I do is something like this. . . I think I'll sleep okay at night
_________________
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Cmdr. Tom Strodthoff
#35 - Dsm IA
strods- Senior Member
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Join date : 2013-05-23
Re: Compass Merit
by Mark Jones August 29th 2014, 4:40 pm
We should give this some thought. WE could take the compass merit steps and at each level refresh and make a bit more difficult some of the teachings and evalulations. I am talking minor steps. An example is.
Discovery Rangers.
2nd year Red Compass Merit level 1
1st year AR Red Compass Merit Level 2.
a. Refreshes level 1 skills.
b. Adds more hands on testing with Compasses.
1. Headings. Dial in 10 headings on a piece of paper and tell me what they point to. On the paper have the code, Pledge and so on. Have them repeat what it is they found at that heading.
2. Take them outside and have them dial in 4 headings on a map of your area. Landmarks could be Flag Pole, fire hydrant, Water tower, traffic light..then show them how to show their position exactly on the map. (it would take some work but it would be a good leasson.
Then For Compass Merit Level 3. 2nd year in AR
a. Refresh Merit level 1.
b. Take them outside and have them shoot compass merits inside a big box or blinder and then have them tell you on the decorder sheet what they should see.
Compass Merit level 4 would be more of the same.
a. Refresh merit level 1
b. Add a course through the neighbor hood.
c. Take they out to a place that has lots of land marks and have them triangulate where they are on a map. Then go for a hike. Using the Compass and map to check where abouts.
At each level they get the basics once again. They also get tasks a bit harder to do.
This can also be done to other merits that we teach that need repeated. Rope Craft is another one that needs repeated often at least 3 times a year. I do it for recreation. I have a saw buck with ropes on it in our classroom for filler. At least once a month get them to tie something.
It would be cool to see something like this being developed. While each merit level would count as a merit step of a color..very similar to the Bible merits. Just makes a way to reward a trail that could be repeated to the point we could be known for something.
Discovery Rangers.
2nd year Red Compass Merit level 1
1st year AR Red Compass Merit Level 2.
a. Refreshes level 1 skills.
b. Adds more hands on testing with Compasses.
1. Headings. Dial in 10 headings on a piece of paper and tell me what they point to. On the paper have the code, Pledge and so on. Have them repeat what it is they found at that heading.
2. Take them outside and have them dial in 4 headings on a map of your area. Landmarks could be Flag Pole, fire hydrant, Water tower, traffic light..then show them how to show their position exactly on the map. (it would take some work but it would be a good leasson.
Then For Compass Merit Level 3. 2nd year in AR
a. Refresh Merit level 1.
b. Take them outside and have them shoot compass merits inside a big box or blinder and then have them tell you on the decorder sheet what they should see.
Compass Merit level 4 would be more of the same.
a. Refresh merit level 1
b. Add a course through the neighbor hood.
c. Take they out to a place that has lots of land marks and have them triangulate where they are on a map. Then go for a hike. Using the Compass and map to check where abouts.
At each level they get the basics once again. They also get tasks a bit harder to do.
This can also be done to other merits that we teach that need repeated. Rope Craft is another one that needs repeated often at least 3 times a year. I do it for recreation. I have a saw buck with ropes on it in our classroom for filler. At least once a month get them to tie something.
It would be cool to see something like this being developed. While each merit level would count as a merit step of a color..very similar to the Bible merits. Just makes a way to reward a trail that could be repeated to the point we could be known for something.
Mark Jones- Star member
- Posts : 1921
Join date : 2013-05-16
Age : 65
Location : Springfield Missouri -
Re: Compass Merit
by Phillip Gross August 30th 2014, 1:25 pm
Both of those links take you to your dropbox file with everything there... Did you mean to allow us to see everything? You've got a ton of good stuff!strods wrote:Compass MeritPhillip Gross wrote:I'd like to see what you've got if you are willing to share it. I used the booklet you made when I did primitive shelters and it was awesome!strods wrote:...I've re written the Orienteering merit for our outpost to turn it into a Compass level 2.
Orienteering
Do you teach your compass merit material instead of, or along with the formal ranger material?
Phillip Gross- Special Member
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Join date : 2013-05-14
Re: Compass Merit
by strods August 31st 2014, 11:27 am
I didn't necessarily mean to share everything, but I've got nothing to hide so I'm not worried. I'll fix it but not this second.
As far as my view of merit badges I have two thoughts.
1. The material provided by National is the beginning, not the end of teaching. If I or other commanders can expand and add more absolutely.
2. The Ranger has earned the merit when I feel he has reached a point where if he really needed the skill in real life, he could do it.
Beyond that, it a situational thing. For compass I use mostly the independent material, and I do use the Adventures in Camping as our outpost handbook.
I personally felt national's material was longwinded and complicated to explain setting a bearing.
When I was a kid, my commander was pretty simple.
1. Lay it all down, align it all north. the map, the compass, the needle, all of it. Get everything looking the same way.
2. Find yourself. Landmarks, Triangulate, cross streets, whatever.
3. Find target.
4. Find best route.
5. Take your compass reading, mileages, and notes. And for that the simplest way he showed us was to pick up the compass by the housing. Keep the needle north and in the doghouse, and turn the direction arrow where you want to go.
As far as my view of merit badges I have two thoughts.
1. The material provided by National is the beginning, not the end of teaching. If I or other commanders can expand and add more absolutely.
2. The Ranger has earned the merit when I feel he has reached a point where if he really needed the skill in real life, he could do it.
Beyond that, it a situational thing. For compass I use mostly the independent material, and I do use the Adventures in Camping as our outpost handbook.
I personally felt national's material was longwinded and complicated to explain setting a bearing.
When I was a kid, my commander was pretty simple.
1. Lay it all down, align it all north. the map, the compass, the needle, all of it. Get everything looking the same way.
2. Find yourself. Landmarks, Triangulate, cross streets, whatever.
3. Find target.
4. Find best route.
5. Take your compass reading, mileages, and notes. And for that the simplest way he showed us was to pick up the compass by the housing. Keep the needle north and in the doghouse, and turn the direction arrow where you want to go.
_________________
"Pick battles big enough to matter, but small enough to win."
Cmdr. Tom Strodthoff
#35 - Dsm IA
strods- Senior Member
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Re: Compass Merit
by strods August 31st 2014, 11:32 am
fixedPhillip Gross wrote:
Both of those links take you to your dropbox file with everything there... Did you mean to allow us to see everything? You've got a ton of good stuff!
strods- Senior Member
- Posts : 393
Join date : 2013-05-23
Re: Compass Merit
by RRCmdrBennett August 31st 2014, 4:40 pm
See what you did Philip you ruined it for the rest of us.
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