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AR-15 Hunting

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AR-15 Hunting

Post by RRCmdrBennett on July 31st 2013, 5:52 pm

Has anyone hunted with an AR-15 or other MSR type? I came across this site www.ar15hunter.com which dispels the myth that you no one uses these guns for hunting.

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Re: AR-15 Hunting

Post by Claymore on July 31st 2013, 11:01 pm

I think that I mentioned that I have shot 2 deer with 223's.

In about 45 years of deer hunting, they were the only deer that I lost.

While I am aware of persons who have talked of how well they have taken deer with .223's, there is probably a reason why they are not legal for deer in several states.

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Re: AR-15 Hunting

Post by RRCmdrBennett on August 6th 2013, 9:15 pm

I read you had used .223 cal AR for deer hunting. Have you ever used a higher caliber AR like the 7.62/.308 cal for deer hunting?

Do you think the AR guns are very well suited for hunting? I strongly believe they are given its capability of replacing the upper receiver and barrel with any caliber you choose.

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fire FCF Frontiersman 9/91, Buckskin ?, Wilderness ? fire
Bourgeois Trapper 5/06, Free Trapper ?
Training Seminars/Camps:
LTC LMA 5/94, Ranger Basics 1/05, LTA LMA 5/05, NTC IL 5/09, WCO 10/09, ICS 4/10, RKTC 7/10, Ranger Essentials 8/10, NRMC 10/11, Training Academy? NEEC? JBIE?
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Re: AR-15 Hunting

Post by Claymore on August 7th 2013, 4:45 pm

Probably my primary hunting caliber is .308. I've got that in an M1-A, a Mauser-Action Bolt Rifle, and I just sold my Fed-Ord M-14 in 7.62. Every time that I've hit a deer with that caliber, it didn't go more than a few feet (other than rolling down a hill; the 6th law if Physics is that a deer will NOT die on top of a hill or ridge, and will always run or roll down to the thickest point possible).

I've taken a couple of deer with a 12 Gauge Remington 870.
One that I hit with a Brenneke Slug dropped pretty quick (and was a 12-Point Beauty). I hit another with a Sabot-Slug, and it ran about 200 yards before stopping.

Probably the best Deer-Stopper that I have used is a Kodiak double-Barrel .50 Cal Muzzle-Loader shooting a 370 grain Maxi-Ball pushed by 80 grains of FFG. Every deer that I've hit with it has pretty-much crumpled right there.

(Notice a pattern? Heavy & Slow seems to drop them best!)

I'm going to give the AR-15 Platform one last chance. I picked up a Stag-Arms in 6.8mm Special Purpose Cartridge. That is supposed to have about 1700 foot/pounds of energy vs 1325 foot/pounds out of a 5.56mm, and the bullet weighs twice as much. I'll let you know if the deer seem to appreciate the difference.

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Re: AR-15 Hunting

Post by RRCmdrBennett on August 7th 2013, 6:11 pm

Would you think an AR in .308 compared to a semi auto traditional style rifle in .308 would have the same effect if firing the same round?

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Re: AR-15 Hunting

Post by Claymore on August 7th 2013, 6:31 pm

No discernable effect.

Systems like the M-14 use a small amount of gas pressure about 3 inches from the end of the barrel. By this time, the bullet has pretty-much gained full velocity.

The deer won't notice the difference. In fact, you would probably lose more velocity if the rifling lands/groves don't match your bullet, and allow some gas to go past.

Now a submachinegun that uses blowback (the active pressure in the barrel to push the bolt back) can make more of a difference. But those are pretty-much pistol cartridges.

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Re: AR-15 Hunting

Post by RRCmdrBennett on August 7th 2013, 10:43 pm

Thanks that gives us more, "ammo" for when people think you can't hunt with AR's. It's all about caliber and what your game is.

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RR GMA #83 Potomac Dist-#2366 Nat'l

"Be Ready, It wasn't raining when Noah built the Ark."

fire FCF Frontiersman 9/91, Buckskin ?, Wilderness ? fire
Bourgeois Trapper 5/06, Free Trapper ?
Training Seminars/Camps:
LTC LMA 5/94, Ranger Basics 1/05, LTA LMA 5/05, NTC IL 5/09, WCO 10/09, ICS 4/10, RKTC 7/10, Ranger Essentials 8/10, NRMC 10/11, Training Academy? NEEC? JBIE?
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Re: AR-15 Hunting

Post by RRCmdrBennett on August 15th 2013, 3:02 pm

I Saw the new ad for the Fin Feather Fur shop had another M&P15 in camo for $999. The rest of the specs are the same. For $120 more I could swap out the one I have in layaway for the camo version.

My question is for anyone who hunts with or without AR's does having a camo gun really make a significant difference when hunting? I just want to know is it really worth the $ or is it just a way to get you to part with more $?

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RR GMA #83 Potomac Dist-#2366 Nat'l

"Be Ready, It wasn't raining when Noah built the Ark."

fire FCF Frontiersman 9/91, Buckskin ?, Wilderness ? fire
Bourgeois Trapper 5/06, Free Trapper ?
Training Seminars/Camps:
LTC LMA 5/94, Ranger Basics 1/05, LTA LMA 5/05, NTC IL 5/09, WCO 10/09, ICS 4/10, RKTC 7/10, Ranger Essentials 8/10, NRMC 10/11, Training Academy? NEEC? JBIE?
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Re: AR-15 Hunting

Post by Claymore on August 15th 2013, 3:09 pm

Not so much, in my opinion.

I guess that if you were in combat or "Perfectly" camoflaged-up in your face/outfit, it could.

Every deer that has seen me has appeared more afraid of my face than my gun (maybe it's scarier).

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Re: AR-15 Hunting

Post by RRCmdrBennett on August 15th 2013, 3:31 pm

I've noticed that about deer they aren't afraid of you while inside a vehicle until you step out and they know what you are.

Do you use any camo guns for hunting? Just curious.

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"Be Ready, It wasn't raining when Noah built the Ark."

fire FCF Frontiersman 9/91, Buckskin ?, Wilderness ? fire
Bourgeois Trapper 5/06, Free Trapper ?
Training Seminars/Camps:
LTC LMA 5/94, Ranger Basics 1/05, LTA LMA 5/05, NTC IL 5/09, WCO 10/09, ICS 4/10, RKTC 7/10, Ranger Essentials 8/10, NRMC 10/11, Training Academy? NEEC? JBIE?
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Re: AR-15 Hunting

Post by sreidelberger on August 19th 2013, 1:44 pm

My browning 12 gauge has a camo finish for duck hunting. Ducks can see pretty far so having a shiny blued steel shotgun in the blind is not the best idea. Plus I duck hunt in some really lousy weather. The camo finish helps protect the gun from rust. When sleet freezes on the barrel and theres frost on the stock, you know the weathers bad.

As for deer, idk. I dont deer hunt anymore but I've got lots of friends and coworkers that do. One has all the "scent control" hunting clothes, never takes his gear into his house, never washes it, sneaks into the woods like a sniper. Another guy I know hunts in regular street clothes, smokes like a steam engine, and talks on his cell phone from his deer stand. They both kill deer.

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Re: AR-15 Hunting

Post by RRCmdrBennett on August 19th 2013, 2:06 pm

I have a hunting stand for protection from the elements.

Does washing clothes make them easier for game to detect them? I seen Duck Dynasty guys have a tradition of not bathing i. Preparation for duck season.

I'd like to expand into other game. I'm thinking of squirrel hunting and predator hunt coyote.

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RR GMA #83 Potomac Dist-#2366 Nat'l

"Be Ready, It wasn't raining when Noah built the Ark."

fire FCF Frontiersman 9/91, Buckskin ?, Wilderness ? fire
Bourgeois Trapper 5/06, Free Trapper ?
Training Seminars/Camps:
LTC LMA 5/94, Ranger Basics 1/05, LTA LMA 5/05, NTC IL 5/09, WCO 10/09, ICS 4/10, RKTC 7/10, Ranger Essentials 8/10, NRMC 10/11, Training Academy? NEEC? JBIE?
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Re: AR-15 Hunting

Post by RRCmdrBennett on August 19th 2013, 11:06 pm

Shane, if the difference between two guns is camo and its $120 more is it worth it to "upgrade" to camo version?

First pay of Sept is when I'm getting her out of layaway and happens to be labor day hoiday pay plus quarterly bonus hits that check. I could go camo and be alright. I like too promoting the AR as a hunting rifle with the camo look definitely helps improve its image.

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Dan Bennett
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RR Outpost #215, Ohio District :flag:
RR GMA #83 Potomac Dist-#2366 Nat'l

"Be Ready, It wasn't raining when Noah built the Ark."

fire FCF Frontiersman 9/91, Buckskin ?, Wilderness ? fire
Bourgeois Trapper 5/06, Free Trapper ?
Training Seminars/Camps:
LTC LMA 5/94, Ranger Basics 1/05, LTA LMA 5/05, NTC IL 5/09, WCO 10/09, ICS 4/10, RKTC 7/10, Ranger Essentials 8/10, NRMC 10/11, Training Academy? NEEC? JBIE?
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Re: AR-15 Hunting

Post by Claymore on August 22nd 2013, 12:25 pm

Deer are definately "Scent" & "Hearing" driven over visual, and that's something that's hard for us to bear in mind.

I have seen deer get spooked, because they picked up my scent. The worst things seem to be scented laundry soap, and especially fabric softener. In fact, I will hang used fabric softener sheets on my fruit trees to keep the deer away.

Now that being said, I have seen my father go deer hunting and put on the same coveralls that he would wear to change the oil in his tractors (you could notice the machinery odors on them), and hour-for-hour in the woods, he probably did better than me.

So go figure...............

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Re: AR-15 Hunting

Post by Phillip Gross on August 22nd 2013, 12:37 pm

I've also heard of guys smoking away in their deer stands and kill deer like crazy... Go figure.
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Re: AR-15 Hunting

Post by RRCmdrBennett on August 22nd 2013, 4:38 pm

Since Ohio is shotgun only for deer (muzzleloader can be rifle) if I use this AR for hunting it'll be smaller game like coyote, squirrel, rabbit, etc. Are these game more visual rather than auditory/scent driven?

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fire FCF Frontiersman 9/91, Buckskin ?, Wilderness ? fire
Bourgeois Trapper 5/06, Free Trapper ?
Training Seminars/Camps:
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Re: AR-15 Hunting

Post by RRCmdrBennett on August 22nd 2013, 10:47 pm

Claymore, do you think the camo finish protects the barrel and action more than not having one?

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RR Outpost #215, Ohio District :flag:
RR GMA #83 Potomac Dist-#2366 Nat'l

"Be Ready, It wasn't raining when Noah built the Ark."

fire FCF Frontiersman 9/91, Buckskin ?, Wilderness ? fire
Bourgeois Trapper 5/06, Free Trapper ?
Training Seminars/Camps:
LTC LMA 5/94, Ranger Basics 1/05, LTA LMA 5/05, NTC IL 5/09, WCO 10/09, ICS 4/10, RKTC 7/10, Ranger Essentials 8/10, NRMC 10/11, Training Academy? NEEC? JBIE?
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Re: AR-15 Hunting

Post by Claymore on August 22nd 2013, 10:57 pm

It depends. Some Camo finishes are Teflon-Base. They offer superior weather protection, but are rather soft, and can be scratched off.

Some are simply decals that the manufacturer floats on top of a solvent and dips the metal parts into.

If it is a true "pattern" like Realtree, it is probably the decal.

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Re: AR-15 Hunting

Post by RRCmdrBennett on August 23rd 2013, 6:06 pm

If it were the more protective teflon coated camo would you consider it worth it to spend $120 more for that feature?

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RR GMA #83 Potomac Dist-#2366 Nat'l

"Be Ready, It wasn't raining when Noah built the Ark."

fire FCF Frontiersman 9/91, Buckskin ?, Wilderness ? fire
Bourgeois Trapper 5/06, Free Trapper ?
Training Seminars/Camps:
LTC LMA 5/94, Ranger Basics 1/05, LTA LMA 5/05, NTC IL 5/09, WCO 10/09, ICS 4/10, RKTC 7/10, Ranger Essentials 8/10, NRMC 10/11, Training Academy? NEEC? JBIE?
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Re: AR-15 Hunting

Post by RRCmdrBennett on August 23rd 2013, 6:53 pm

I called the Fin... shop and they said the camo finish on the other version of the M&P15 is a dipped teflon coating.

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RR Outpost #215, Ohio District :flag:
RR GMA #83 Potomac Dist-#2366 Nat'l

"Be Ready, It wasn't raining when Noah built the Ark."

fire FCF Frontiersman 9/91, Buckskin ?, Wilderness ? fire
Bourgeois Trapper 5/06, Free Trapper ?
Training Seminars/Camps:
LTC LMA 5/94, Ranger Basics 1/05, LTA LMA 5/05, NTC IL 5/09, WCO 10/09, ICS 4/10, RKTC 7/10, Ranger Essentials 8/10, NRMC 10/11, Training Academy? NEEC? JBIE?
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Re: AR-15 Hunting

Post by Claymore on August 23rd 2013, 7:04 pm

RRCmdrBennett wrote:If it were the more protective teflon coated camo would you consider it worth it to spend $120 more for that feature?
On a Quality gun like a Colt, Bushmaster, or M&P, it is probably worth it. I have seen several AR-15's and M-16's that seem to have a problem with "Brown Parkerizing" (rust) on the front sight ramp assembly (maybe because it is "cast", rather than "milled").

But paying for Teflon Coating on a "Second Tier" ($600.00 to $700.00) gun is kind-of like putting lipstick on a pig.

It might be the prettiest pig in the pen, but it's still a pig.

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Re: AR-15 Hunting

Post by RRCmdrBennett on August 23rd 2013, 7:35 pm

By "second tier" gun you mean other brands of lower quality like Mossberg or American Tactical?

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"Be Ready, It wasn't raining when Noah built the Ark."

fire FCF Frontiersman 9/91, Buckskin ?, Wilderness ? fire
Bourgeois Trapper 5/06, Free Trapper ?
Training Seminars/Camps:
LTC LMA 5/94, Ranger Basics 1/05, LTA LMA 5/05, NTC IL 5/09, WCO 10/09, ICS 4/10, RKTC 7/10, Ranger Essentials 8/10, NRMC 10/11, Training Academy? NEEC? JBIE?
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Re: AR-15 Hunting

Post by Claymore on August 23rd 2013, 8:05 pm

If you can get it for much less than $850.00, pretty-much consider it as "Second Tier".

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Re: AR-15 Hunting

Post by RRCmdrBennett on August 23rd 2013, 8:45 pm

Claymore wrote:If you can get it for much less than $850.00, pretty-much consider it as "Second Tier".
The American Tactical was $650 so yea I figured it was low end but was still impressed with how low the AR's have gotten now since the big gun frenzy.

Normally mine is $1100 but sale was $879 with a good brand name on it.

I found out some disappointing news depending on how you look at it. The camo optic-ready M&P15 www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product4_750001_750051_799047_-1_787653___ProductDisplayErrorView_Y upon closer inspection of the specs on their site is a whisper 300. It has a detachable 10 round mag and accepts either .300 whisper or .300 AAC Blackout caliber. It isn't the 5.56 NATO/.223 caliber that it was marked in the sales ad. Must be a misprint.

Aren't the whisper .300 and .300 AAC Blackout the $70 bucks for a box of 20 rounds you mentioned?

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RR GMA #83 Potomac Dist-#2366 Nat'l

"Be Ready, It wasn't raining when Noah built the Ark."

fire FCF Frontiersman 9/91, Buckskin ?, Wilderness ? fire
Bourgeois Trapper 5/06, Free Trapper ?
Training Seminars/Camps:
LTC LMA 5/94, Ranger Basics 1/05, LTA LMA 5/05, NTC IL 5/09, WCO 10/09, ICS 4/10, RKTC 7/10, Ranger Essentials 8/10, NRMC 10/11, Training Academy? NEEC? JBIE?
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Re: AR-15 Hunting

Post by sreidelberger on August 24th 2013, 10:48 am

Claymore is right. On a high dollar gun its probably worth it. Otherwise, i'd say save your money. My browning has the "duratouch" coating which i think is teflon based. Its a clear coating over the camo. When i was shopping for this gun i was actually looking for a black one. Its the same duratouch coating but the black was supposed to be cheaper than the camo pattern. I ended up finding the camo gun cheaper.

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OP 90 Percy A/G
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Re: AR-15 Hunting

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