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Serious Question

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Serious Question

Post by Phillip Gross on March 24th 2017, 8:05 am

Claymore  (the rest of you can join in too, but he was LE), we had a situation happen recently that has me very curious about what to do. Allow me to tell the story...

A couple weeks ago we found out that the older couple who owns the jewelry store across the street (plus three of four more in other towns) had been broken into at home, held at gunpoint, and forced to give all the codes to the stores. The perps didn't kill them, so when they left, the couple simply called the police and that was the beginning of the end for the perps. One or two were caught immediately that night, with another one or two being caught not long after that, leaving only one still at large.

Now here's the tricky part of the story. When we got the whole story from the nephew (who is the store manager of the location across the street in our town), we found what really happened. We were talking yesterday and I was saying why I believed that it was so important to carry and have firearms for protection around you, etc. Then the nephew tells me, that his uncle DOES do that, big NRA supporter, etc, etc. The way it really went down was that they were asleep, then in the middle of the night their door was caved in at te house (lots of noise) and a bunch of men (they had no idea the actual number when you're waking up) came in screaming "ATF, ATF, GET ON THE GROUND!". So the man came out of his room with his hands up while they shined bright flashlights in his face thinking some mistake had been made. He simply complied with the "police", and the rest is history in this story.

So, Claymore, what should we do?!? If law enforcement breaks down my door, what is the tell that lets me know they're legit? I hate that thus happened to this elderly couple, but I'm glad I heard about it because I think I'd have done the same exact thing as he did because we're hardwired to obey authority. We haven't broken the law. We're not criminals, so we'll just come out with our hands up, and figure out the mistake in this situation.

What is the law? Someone breaks down my door screaming ATF, FBI, etc, how long can you resist (hold a defensive position) and not get in more trouble, provided their legit? After hearing this story I'm running scenarios in my mind about what I would, but I get as far as "I'd grab my gun and yell back to them...".... WHAT? What are you going to yell back???? Laughing They're either LE sweeping the house (with or without dogs) to find you and rough you up if they find you with a gun, or they're criminals like in this story.

Ok, ..... go.
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Re: Serious Question

Post by Mark Jones on March 24th 2017, 9:58 am

Stay prayed up. Absolute rules will fail absolutely.

When the bad guys come in masquerading as the good guys... you better be prayed up as you are in a no win situation and God is the only one that can help you.

You shoot a police officer and your dead meat by ALL Accounts...no matter what you say..your dead meat.

Criminals that do this should be given a extra 50 years mandatory to think it over.
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Re: Serious Question

Post by joecool on March 24th 2017, 1:47 pm

I'm visiting my LEO son this weekend, but let me throw in my (amateur) two bits in a single sentence...Seems to me that law enforcement is required to announce their presence first.

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Re: Serious Question

Post by Claymore on March 24th 2017, 3:38 pm

Mark pretty-much has it. If you even resist a forced Police Entry, it will end badly for you.

Now, if we have a Search Warrant, we announce "Police Officers, Search Warrant." However, that is splitting a pretty fine line of semantics, and the same announcements are not always made if there is a simple Arrest Warrant.

"Dynamic" Entries have been found to often be the safest method (for all parties, because the suspect generally doesn't have time to arm himself), the best way to preserve evidence, and have been upheld by the Courts.

Impersonating a Police Officer to Negate an individual's right to self-defense should be a separate offense and charged as a Violation of Constitutional Rights.

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