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BB Gun Shooting Competition

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BB Gun Shooting Competition

Post by Phillip Gross on January 19th 2016, 10:44 am

I recall Claymore talking about having official BB gun shooting competitions at his outpost, but I can't remember exactly all the details. Were the targets to be mailed somewhere so they could be recorded, or just submit the scores? Do you have to be some official designation to do that, or can anyone do it?

I think it was discussed in one of the monthly threads, but I don't remember which one. That's the one bad thing about that catch all thread each month. If there's something actually useful, it gets buried in the past.
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Re: BB Gun Shooting Competition

Post by Claymore on January 19th 2016, 11:52 am

I was going to send you a side message about this, but since it's been brought out...........

We ran, essentially, three programs; which all support each other.

The first is the Basic (and Advanced) Royal Rangers Firearms Safety Merit and BB-Gun Shooting Merits. You are using the Daisy Avante Program of Instruction. Those are good materials. My only criticism is that it is almost identical to the Hunter Safety Program of Instruction, rather than just Firearms Safety.

But there is still a lot of good information that the boys will take with them, and there is more to shooting than just being on-line in a controlled shooting environment.

Completing this qualifies the kids for the "Firearms Safety Merit".

The next merit that the kids can achieve is the "Marksmanship" Merit. This is the merit demonstrating that the kid can effectively hit the target. Essentially, if the kids can demonstrate that they can achieve qualifying scores on the targets in the different shooting positions (Prone, Sitting, Kneeling, Standing), then they qualify for this merit.

Save the scores. These can also be applied to their NRA Shooting Medals (below).

The second part is the NRA Marksmanship Qualification Program. This awards medals through about 12 levels for shooting. We do this in the Fellowship Hall, using box backstops.

The first requirement is to take a "Basic Safety Course"; you are already doing that. With that fulfilled, the kids need to shoot 10 good targets at 5 meters (16 1/2 feet) on the NRA 5 Meter Target.

There are 5 shots per target, and a perfect bull's-eye is 10 points, so 5 perfect bulls-eyes would give a potential score of 50 points per target. For the first medal (Pro-Marksman/Bronze), the kids need to shoot 10 targets with a minimum qualifying score of 20 per target. Once the kids have shot the 10 qualifying targets, then they are awarded the certificates and medals.

If a kid shoots 3 good targets, and then shoots a non-qualifying target, you just throw out the bad target (do nor record the score), and re-shoot it to achieve a qualifying score.

I tried to post a link, but it didn't work. Just do a Google Search for "NRA mqp score sheet", and it will get you to a link that looks like this:
mqp.nra.org/documents/pdf/education/training/.../qualbook.pdf

It has all of the rules, and copies of the score sheets that you need to keep. There is a "short" and a "long" score sheet. Use the "long" one, as that will keep the kids busy achieving shooting awards for a long time.

If you certify that the kids have completed the Avante Safety Program, and if you e-mail me copies of the kids' score sheets, then as an NRA Instructor, I will certify the kids for their shooting medals and certificates, & will forward them to you at cost (Medals are about $5.00 each, and Certificates are about $1.00 each).

The next step is to prepare for the National Postal Matches through Royal Rangers. This is a competition open to all chartered Outposts. Registration cost is $5.00 per shooter per event. For example; a BB-Gun team is 5 kids. So if you had 7 kids shooting, it would cost $5.00 per kid for 7 entries for Individual Shooter ($35.00) plus a 5-man team ($25.00) for a total of $60.00.

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Re: BB Gun Shooting Competition

Post by Phillip Gross on January 19th 2016, 1:51 pm

And all of this is on the 5m range, or will it go up to longer ranges?
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Re: BB Gun Shooting Competition

Post by Claymore on January 19th 2016, 10:20 pm

It is all at 5 meters.

Of course, it must be with Smooth Bore BB-guns.

If you get into air rifles, then that is 10 meters.

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Re: BB Gun Shooting Competition

Post by Claymore on January 20th 2016, 12:16 am

By the way...........

The manuals and "experts" say that you virtually never need to clean the barrel of a BB-Gun, because it does not burn powder, and therefore never gets dirty.

A couple of our Avanti Champion BB-Guns started shooting poorly.  I got the Armorer's DVD, made the tools to completely disassemble the Guns, checked the springs, cleaned, oiled, and reassembled them: no difference.

I then took a cleaning rod with some Break-free on a patch and went down the barrel.  The guns went from shooting scores of 38/50 to 47/50.  The barrel tubes are made of soft steel and not stainless steel.  My best guess is that with shooting (and time) the inside of the barrel tubes got scuffed up and oxidized.

I also cleaned the inside of the barrels of our cheap "Buck" BB-Guns.  When I did, I came up with rust on the cleaning patches.

So don't believe it when the "experts" say that you never need to clean the inside of the barrel of a BB-Gun or Air Rifle (although a BB-Gun may be a bit rougher on the bore, because it shoots steel projectiles).

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Re: BB Gun Shooting Competition

Post by RRCmdrBennett on January 20th 2016, 3:29 am

Hey Philip if you see good comments in a monthly greetings thread I can split those into separate topics if thats ok with all parties involved.  I would suggest also attaching the year to the monthly thread if you create it before we do. Make it easier to go back and find the info you want.

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Re: BB Gun Shooting Competition

Post by Claymore on January 20th 2016, 4:37 pm

On "Position" Shooting...........

The kids are allowed to use shooting mats in the Prone, Sitting, and Kneeling shooting positions.

In the Kneeling Position, they are allowed to use a single "Kneeling Roll" (not to exceed 9 3/4" in length and 7" in diameter).  It is called a "Roll", because shooters often used a piece of rolled-up carpet.  It is placed between the instep of the shooter's "trail" foot and the ground/mat.

If you recall what I told you about sand-bags made from jean legs, you can use these.  If you don't want to worry about spilling sand in the Fellowship Hall, use Cedar Hamster Bedding ($7.00 per bale at Wal-Mart).  

If you use a tie string to close the open end, you can just add a bit of bedding, when it gets too mushy.

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Re: BB Gun Shooting Competition

Post by Claymore on January 25th 2016, 12:10 am

Also,

If there is any way that you can do it, try to field an Air Rifle Team. Every year, there are only 2 or 3 teams that enroll nationally, so you have great chances of taking a team medal.

If you get 4 kids to shoot in the Air Rifle Event, I can just about guarantee that at least one will take a medal.

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Re: BB Gun Shooting Competition

Post by Phillip Gross on January 25th 2016, 6:28 am

What distance is that competition? What type rifles are needed for that one?
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Re: BB Gun Shooting Competition

Post by Claymore on January 25th 2016, 12:36 pm

10 meters.

.177 cal air rifles.

I'm not sure about the maximum velocity. I tell the boys, "No Thermonuclear Squirrel Killers".

The Daisy/Avanti Model 853 that we use have a Muzzle Velocity of 500 fps. If you use air rifles much more than that, you will run into backstop problems. For the Model 853, you can use a cardboard box with about 3 or 4 inches of magazines and then a 1/4 inch plywood backstop behind the box.

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Re: BB Gun Shooting Competition

Post by Claymore on January 25th 2016, 12:42 pm

The contact at Daisy is Lori Moore.  Best way to contact her is by e-mail at:

LMoore@daisy.com

Tell her in the e-mail that you have a Royal Ranger Outpost, that you are currently doing Firearms Safety with the Avanti Program, and that you request the catalog and price list for authorized youth programs.

She will e-mail back the catalog and price list as attachments.

When we pay for the guns/accessories, I have our secretary make out a church check, so that they can see that it is under the supervision of the church.

She will generally get back to you within 72 hours.

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Re: BB Gun Shooting Competition

Post by Claymore on January 25th 2016, 1:01 pm

You will find that Champion BB-Guns will be too long for your smaller shooters.

Here is a cheap way to make target guns for your smaller Discovery Rangers:

Get 1 or 2 Daisy "Buck" BB-Guns (about $29.00). Purchase a set of the cheap (about $10.00) peep sights from Daisy. Cut off the rear sight from the Buck (leave at least 1/4-inch, as it also serves as the retainer for the mainsping).

Install the peep sight in the wood screw at the back of the receiver. You will need to use a couple of hard rubber washers (like faucet washers) under the sights to get good contact.

They won't be as accurate as Champions, but will probably exceed the abilities of the shooters for quite a while.

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Re: BB Gun Shooting Competition

Post by Phillip Gross on January 25th 2016, 2:39 pm

Awesome! Thank you for the info. I shot an email off to Ms Moore.
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Re: BB Gun Shooting Competition

Post by Claymore on January 26th 2016, 12:26 pm

Phillip,

The Government still has surplus/refurbished Daisy Model 853 air rifles for sale at $100.00 plus $15.00 shipping.

If you have ANY thoughts about expanding your program to Air Rifle, I strongly recommend that you have your outpost register with "Gun Owners of South Carolina" (a Government Recognized CMP Organization) as a "Youth Shooting Program".  It costs $15.00 per year.

THIS will give your outpost authorization to directly purchase air guns, shooting equipment (and even rifles & ammunition, if available) from the government to use in Marksmanship and Firearms Safety Training.


The Home Page for Gun Owners of South Carolina is here:
http://www.gosc.org/


This is the link to the form to apply for club membership:
http://www.gosc.org/individual-membership.pdf

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Re: BB Gun Shooting Competition

Post by RRCmdrBennett on January 27th 2016, 9:26 pm

Claymore wrote:Phillip,

The Government still has surplus/refurbished Daisy Model 853 air rifles for sale at $100.00 plus $15.00 shipping.

If you have ANY thoughts about expanding your program to Air Rifle, I strongly recommend that you have your outpost register with "Gun Owners of South Carolina" (a Government Recognized CMP Organization) as a "Youth Shooting Program".  It costs $15.00 per year.

THIS will give your outpost authorization to directly purchase air guns, shooting equipment (and even rifles & ammunition, if available) from the government to use in Marksmanship and Firearms Safety Training.


The Home Page for Gun Owners of South Carolina is here:
http://www.gosc.org/


This is the link to the form to apply for club membership:
http://www.gosc.org/individual-membership.pdf
And for the rest or us?

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Re: BB Gun Shooting Competition

Post by Phillip Gross on January 27th 2016, 9:41 pm

Out of luck!
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Re: BB Gun Shooting Competition

Post by Claymore on January 27th 2016, 10:30 pm

RRCmdrBennett wrote:
Claymore wrote:Phillip,

The Government still has surplus/refurbished Daisy Model 853 air rifles for sale at $100.00 plus $15.00 shipping.

If you have ANY thoughts about expanding your program to Air Rifle, I strongly recommend that you have your outpost register with "Gun Owners of South Carolina" (a Government Recognized CMP Organization) as a "Youth Shooting Program".  It costs $15.00 per year.

THIS will give your outpost authorization to directly purchase air guns, shooting equipment (and even rifles & ammunition, if available) from the government to use in Marksmanship and Firearms Safety Training.


The Home Page for Gun Owners of South Carolina is here:
http://www.gosc.org/


This is the link to the form to apply for club membership:
http://www.gosc.org/individual-membership.pdf
And for the rest or us?

OK, It's not that difficult.

Same Instructions..........

If you are from Ohio, then substitute Ohio in the instructions instead of South Carolina.


Pay attention, class.  There will be a quiz on this, later.

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Re: BB Gun Shooting Competition

Post by Phillip Gross on February 11th 2016, 9:53 pm

Our rifles should be in tomorrow. We ended up being able to order three of the 499 Champions, targets, etc with the money raised from the people at church.

Most touching was from a gentleman who was watching the service live via Internet connection from home due to the fact that he was dying of cancer. He had held up a sign to his camera saying he would donate to the fund. He was always eager to help out the ministry in any way he could. Mr Jack passed away Wednesday a week ago. He'll never get to see the rifle that he donated for.

Last Sunday we decided that we would name our outpost shooting program after Mr Jack. We'll be having small placards engraved that we can affix to the rifles in his honor. He was a good man and will be missed.
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Re: BB Gun Shooting Competition

Post by Claymore on February 11th 2016, 10:32 pm

Neat idea.

I think that is is also great that your Program can be an instrument for Church Members and Youth to give honor to the memory of this gentleman.

I was looking at shooting medals from Awards Suppliers, and they are not too bad (around $5.00 each). It might be cool to have a "Mr. Jack Memorial Shoot" (3-position match: even use the same scores as for the National Postal Match). That way, the kids would have a greater chance of earning an award.

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Re: BB Gun Shooting Competition

Post by Phillip Gross on February 11th 2016, 10:37 pm

Speaking of using things for others, any reason we can't go ahead and start running Marksmanship and BB Gun merit concurrent with this Avanti shooting program because a lot of the material we're going over is exactly what those merits are.
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Re: BB Gun Shooting Competition

Post by Claymore on February 11th 2016, 11:02 pm

No reason to keep you from doing it.

Technically, you must complete the "Firearms Safety" Course prior to receiving the other awards, but there is nothing to say that you cannot use those scores during the course toward the other awards.

(I also use that as a "carrot" for the older kids to go through "refresher" instruction, when you run a course for a bunch of new rangers.)

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Re: BB Gun Shooting Competition

Post by joecool on February 12th 2016, 12:08 am

Phillip Gross wrote: Last Sunday we decided that we would name our outpost shooting program after Mr Jack.

A few years back, a boy who had previously been part of our outpost died from a lightning strike. We hung a sign on our campsite entryway, "Camp Ethan". Posed our current members under it and sent a picture to his parents. Never heard from them, but we always hoped that it helped them.

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Re: BB Gun Shooting Competition

Post by Claymore on February 12th 2016, 11:12 pm

Phillip Gross wrote:Speaking of using things for others, any reason we can't go ahead and start running Marksmanship and BB Gun merit concurrent with this Avanti shooting program because a lot of the material we're going over is exactly what those merits are.

By the way, the Avanti Course IS an approved Safety Course, so completing it will qualify the kids for the Firearms Safety Merit.  I know that there is also a course in the book, but the Avanti course just runs a bit smoother, and it meets the qualifications.

Then when they demonstrate proficiency in safely hitting the target (I just have them qualify with 1 good target: 20 points for 5 shots in each of the four shooting positions),  They qualify for the Marksmanship Merit.

Remember to save the scores and log them on their score sheets to count toward their NRA MQP Medals.

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Re: BB Gun Shooting Competition

Post by Phillip Gross on February 12th 2016, 11:37 pm

So that's four targets for each boy, correct? I bought four packs of 50 NRA targets along with the rifles.
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Re: BB Gun Shooting Competition

Post by Phillip Gross on February 12th 2016, 11:40 pm

Also, which aperture do you like best for the 499? When I look through the rear peep sight down through the front donut aperture, the whole target is inside the front aperture.
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