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9mm VS 45ACP
4 posters
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Re: 9mm VS 45ACP
That also applies if you label the left target "Glock" and right target "Springfield XDm"...
_________________
Dan Bennett
Sr Commander (2007-2016)
N Central Area Communications Coord, CI (2016)
Outpost #215, Ohio District :flag:
GMA #83 Potomac Dist-#2366 Nat'l
"Be Ready, It wasn't raining when Noah built the Ark."
FCF Frontiersman 9/91
Free Trapper 2016
Training Seminars/Camps:
LTC LMA 5/94, Ranger Basics 1/05, LTA LMA 5/05, NTC IL 5/09, WCO 10/09, ICS 4/10, RKTC 7/10, Ranger Essentials 8/10, NRMC 10/11,
Outpost Leader Advancement Levels:
LMA-Advanced 10/11, MoE 2012-092
RR v1.0
Lima
Golf
Bravo
RRCmdrBennett- Moderator
- Posts : 3603
Join date : 2013-05-15
Age : 47
Location : Ohio
Re: 9mm VS 45ACP
pretty sure you have that backwards
_________________
Chris
Former Commander
MI Outpost 97 2008-2016
Re: 9mm VS 45ACP
Nah but maybe it should be Glock on left and HiPoint on the right...
_________________
Dan Bennett
Sr Commander (2007-2016)
N Central Area Communications Coord, CI (2016)
Outpost #215, Ohio District :flag:
GMA #83 Potomac Dist-#2366 Nat'l
"Be Ready, It wasn't raining when Noah built the Ark."
FCF Frontiersman 9/91
Free Trapper 2016
Training Seminars/Camps:
LTC LMA 5/94, Ranger Basics 1/05, LTA LMA 5/05, NTC IL 5/09, WCO 10/09, ICS 4/10, RKTC 7/10, Ranger Essentials 8/10, NRMC 10/11,
Outpost Leader Advancement Levels:
LMA-Advanced 10/11, MoE 2012-092
RR v1.0
Lima
Golf
Bravo
RRCmdrBennett- Moderator
- Posts : 3603
Join date : 2013-05-15
Age : 47
Location : Ohio
Re: 9mm VS 45ACP
RRCmdrBennett wrote: HiPoint ...
_________________
"Rangers Lead the Way"
18Z, 11B4X
"The last thing that I want to do is to hurt you,...................... but it's still on the list."
Claymore- Special Member
- Posts : 2760
Join date : 2013-05-17
Location : Northern Mississippi
Re: 9mm VS 45ACP
Claymore wrote:RRCmdrBennett wrote: HiPoint ...
I knew I'd get a reaction from that!
_________________
Dan Bennett
Sr Commander (2007-2016)
N Central Area Communications Coord, CI (2016)
Outpost #215, Ohio District :flag:
GMA #83 Potomac Dist-#2366 Nat'l
"Be Ready, It wasn't raining when Noah built the Ark."
FCF Frontiersman 9/91
Free Trapper 2016
Training Seminars/Camps:
LTC LMA 5/94, Ranger Basics 1/05, LTA LMA 5/05, NTC IL 5/09, WCO 10/09, ICS 4/10, RKTC 7/10, Ranger Essentials 8/10, NRMC 10/11,
Outpost Leader Advancement Levels:
LMA-Advanced 10/11, MoE 2012-092
RR v1.0
Lima
Golf
Bravo
RRCmdrBennett- Moderator
- Posts : 3603
Join date : 2013-05-15
Age : 47
Location : Ohio
Re: 9mm VS 45ACP
If you like guns made out of Zinc, you'll love HiPoint.
_________________
"Rangers Lead the Way"
18Z, 11B4X
"The last thing that I want to do is to hurt you,...................... but it's still on the list."
Claymore- Special Member
- Posts : 2760
Join date : 2013-05-17
Location : Northern Mississippi
Re: 9mm VS 45ACP
I was joking though. No one speaks good of them. Is their carbines any different than the handguns?
_________________
Dan Bennett
Sr Commander (2007-2016)
N Central Area Communications Coord, CI (2016)
Outpost #215, Ohio District :flag:
GMA #83 Potomac Dist-#2366 Nat'l
"Be Ready, It wasn't raining when Noah built the Ark."
FCF Frontiersman 9/91
Free Trapper 2016
Training Seminars/Camps:
LTC LMA 5/94, Ranger Basics 1/05, LTA LMA 5/05, NTC IL 5/09, WCO 10/09, ICS 4/10, RKTC 7/10, Ranger Essentials 8/10, NRMC 10/11,
Outpost Leader Advancement Levels:
LMA-Advanced 10/11, MoE 2012-092
RR v1.0
Lima
Golf
Bravo
RRCmdrBennett- Moderator
- Posts : 3603
Join date : 2013-05-15
Age : 47
Location : Ohio
Re: 9mm VS 45ACP
They do not have much finesse, and I think that they are also made of cast Pot Metal.
Definitely not Milspec.
.....................maybe Plinkspec.
Definitely not Milspec.
.....................maybe Plinkspec.
_________________
"Rangers Lead the Way"
18Z, 11B4X
"The last thing that I want to do is to hurt you,...................... but it's still on the list."
Claymore- Special Member
- Posts : 2760
Join date : 2013-05-17
Location : Northern Mississippi
Re: 9mm VS 45ACP
Keeping us on track whats your opinion in the caliber wars?
_________________
Dan Bennett
Sr Commander (2007-2016)
N Central Area Communications Coord, CI (2016)
Outpost #215, Ohio District :flag:
GMA #83 Potomac Dist-#2366 Nat'l
"Be Ready, It wasn't raining when Noah built the Ark."
FCF Frontiersman 9/91
Free Trapper 2016
Training Seminars/Camps:
LTC LMA 5/94, Ranger Basics 1/05, LTA LMA 5/05, NTC IL 5/09, WCO 10/09, ICS 4/10, RKTC 7/10, Ranger Essentials 8/10, NRMC 10/11,
Outpost Leader Advancement Levels:
LMA-Advanced 10/11, MoE 2012-092
RR v1.0
Lima
Golf
Bravo
RRCmdrBennett- Moderator
- Posts : 3603
Join date : 2013-05-15
Age : 47
Location : Ohio
Re: 9mm VS 45ACP
Well, I wouldn't WANT to get hit by either.
They are both capable rounds. In a Perfect World, a full 1911-Sized .45 is just hard to top, insofar as stopping power is concerned.
But other sizes have advantages - but they start to take away from the Perfect World .45 ACP cartridge.
A 9mm can give you a lighter pistol that may be easier to conceal, that may be easier to control, that may hold more ammunition - but you give up the full power, and a .452" hole vs a .356" hole, and the dwell time of a .45 round.
At the Special Forces Weapons Course, we fired rifles, pistols, machineguns, and antitank weapons from the U.S., China, Germany, Italy, Czechoslovakia, Sweden, Canada, England, the Soviet Union, and a few more that I have forgotten about, due to Chronological Decay .
We were still in the Vietnam Era, and so we thought of our mission as likely to take place in Asian or African jungles. Someone asked me which of these weapons I would want to use. I said, "The 11.5-pound Thompson Submachinegun, if I had a Porter to carry the gun and ammunition for me".
They are both capable rounds. In a Perfect World, a full 1911-Sized .45 is just hard to top, insofar as stopping power is concerned.
But other sizes have advantages - but they start to take away from the Perfect World .45 ACP cartridge.
A 9mm can give you a lighter pistol that may be easier to conceal, that may be easier to control, that may hold more ammunition - but you give up the full power, and a .452" hole vs a .356" hole, and the dwell time of a .45 round.
At the Special Forces Weapons Course, we fired rifles, pistols, machineguns, and antitank weapons from the U.S., China, Germany, Italy, Czechoslovakia, Sweden, Canada, England, the Soviet Union, and a few more that I have forgotten about, due to Chronological Decay .
We were still in the Vietnam Era, and so we thought of our mission as likely to take place in Asian or African jungles. Someone asked me which of these weapons I would want to use. I said, "The 11.5-pound Thompson Submachinegun, if I had a Porter to carry the gun and ammunition for me".
_________________
"Rangers Lead the Way"
18Z, 11B4X
"The last thing that I want to do is to hurt you,...................... but it's still on the list."
Claymore- Special Member
- Posts : 2760
Join date : 2013-05-17
Location : Northern Mississippi
Re: 9mm VS 45ACP
Some in civilian world forget the Army uses fmj .45acp instead of hollow point. A lot of what I read is handgun stopping power is a myth.
_________________
Dan Bennett
Sr Commander (2007-2016)
N Central Area Communications Coord, CI (2016)
Outpost #215, Ohio District :flag:
GMA #83 Potomac Dist-#2366 Nat'l
"Be Ready, It wasn't raining when Noah built the Ark."
FCF Frontiersman 9/91
Free Trapper 2016
Training Seminars/Camps:
LTC LMA 5/94, Ranger Basics 1/05, LTA LMA 5/05, NTC IL 5/09, WCO 10/09, ICS 4/10, RKTC 7/10, Ranger Essentials 8/10, NRMC 10/11,
Outpost Leader Advancement Levels:
LMA-Advanced 10/11, MoE 2012-092
RR v1.0
Lima
Golf
Bravo
RRCmdrBennett- Moderator
- Posts : 3603
Join date : 2013-05-15
Age : 47
Location : Ohio
Re: 9mm VS 45ACP
http://www.historicalfirearms.info/post/45916511719/the-thompson-lagarde-tests-following-the
Study conducted under Colonel John T. Thompson (Inventor of the Thompson Submachinegun) and Major/Doctor Louis Anatole LaGarde
Study conducted under Colonel John T. Thompson (Inventor of the Thompson Submachinegun) and Major/Doctor Louis Anatole LaGarde
_________________
"Rangers Lead the Way"
18Z, 11B4X
"The last thing that I want to do is to hurt you,...................... but it's still on the list."
Claymore- Special Member
- Posts : 2760
Join date : 2013-05-17
Location : Northern Mississippi
Re: 9mm VS 45ACP
RRCmdrBennett wrote:A lot of what I read is handgun stopping power is a myth.
Some folks think (insert your favorite handgun here) is a almost a guaranteed death ray & then others think anything below .40 caliber can't even kill someone.
personally, I love to hear the latter one. I enjoy disabusing them of that notion....
my brother in law died of gunshot wound in 1992...1 shot from a tiny Beretta .25acp, right through the heart. dead before he hit the floor.
(please pardon my cavalier attitude-but my brother law was not a good guy. drug user & alcoholic. a mean drunk at that-at the time of his death, he was engaged in beating a much older relative half to death over a $20 debt that was not repaid as fast as he thought it should be)
_________________
Chris
Former Commander
MI Outpost 97 2008-2016
Re: 9mm VS 45ACP
I'm not offended.
My personal experience was that, for my first five years, I was a cop doing Patrol and General Investigations. You wind up kind-of keeping track of how many of names of your known "customers" are read-off in Roll Call of having died (gunshot, knifing, beating, run over by a train:really).
Then I went to the Drug Unit and continued to somewhat keep track. It wound up that I was recognizing about 4 to 5 times as many of our "customers" whose deaths were reported (all of the above paragraph, plus drug overdoses and deaths in drug robberies).
So the moral of the story:
Persons in the Drug Culture are not 4 to 5 times as likely to die as normal citizens.
Persons in the Drug Culture ARE 4 to 5 times as likely to die as common dirtball criminals.
My personal experience was that, for my first five years, I was a cop doing Patrol and General Investigations. You wind up kind-of keeping track of how many of names of your known "customers" are read-off in Roll Call of having died (gunshot, knifing, beating, run over by a train:really).
Then I went to the Drug Unit and continued to somewhat keep track. It wound up that I was recognizing about 4 to 5 times as many of our "customers" whose deaths were reported (all of the above paragraph, plus drug overdoses and deaths in drug robberies).
So the moral of the story:
Persons in the Drug Culture are not 4 to 5 times as likely to die as normal citizens.
Persons in the Drug Culture ARE 4 to 5 times as likely to die as common dirtball criminals.
_________________
"Rangers Lead the Way"
18Z, 11B4X
"The last thing that I want to do is to hurt you,...................... but it's still on the list."
Claymore- Special Member
- Posts : 2760
Join date : 2013-05-17
Location : Northern Mississippi
Re: 9mm VS 45ACP
R
I didn't mean that to say handguns can't stop at any caliber but agree with you Chris on people are lame who think there is ever a one shot kill based on larger sizes. Shot placement is critical even unintentional as it was.
ccm2361 wrote:RRCmdrBennett wrote:A lot of what I read is handgun stopping power is a myth.
Some folks think (insert your favorite handgun here) is a almost a guaranteed death ray & then others think anything below .40 caliber can't even kill someone.
personally, I love to hear the latter one. I enjoy disabusing them of that notion....
my brother in law died of gunshot wound in 1992...1 shot from a tiny Beretta .25acp, right through the heart. dead before he hit the floor.
(please pardon my cavalier attitude-but my brother law was not a good guy. drug user & alcoholic. a mean drunk at that-at the time of his death, he was engaged in beating a much older relative half to death over a $20 debt that was not repaid as fast as he thought it should be)
I didn't mean that to say handguns can't stop at any caliber but agree with you Chris on people are lame who think there is ever a one shot kill based on larger sizes. Shot placement is critical even unintentional as it was.
_________________
Dan Bennett
Sr Commander (2007-2016)
N Central Area Communications Coord, CI (2016)
Outpost #215, Ohio District :flag:
GMA #83 Potomac Dist-#2366 Nat'l
"Be Ready, It wasn't raining when Noah built the Ark."
FCF Frontiersman 9/91
Free Trapper 2016
Training Seminars/Camps:
LTC LMA 5/94, Ranger Basics 1/05, LTA LMA 5/05, NTC IL 5/09, WCO 10/09, ICS 4/10, RKTC 7/10, Ranger Essentials 8/10, NRMC 10/11,
Outpost Leader Advancement Levels:
LMA-Advanced 10/11, MoE 2012-092
RR v1.0
Lima
Golf
Bravo
RRCmdrBennett- Moderator
- Posts : 3603
Join date : 2013-05-15
Age : 47
Location : Ohio
Re: 9mm VS 45ACP
Well let's resurrect this old thread...
A friend gave me an Armscor 1911 double stack for my birthday a few weeks ago. Haven't shot it yet because, as usual, I've been too busy to take time to do something "fun" like that.
I've done some research and found that the Armscor's are a entry level offering, but at least I'm in the .45 club now!
Speaking of Armscor, that same friend was telling me about another round that he loads for called a .22 TCM. Apparently Rock Island makes a 1911 type pistol that takes this load. Anyone heard of it? Link below:
https://www.theboxotruth.com/educational-zone-174-22-tcm-pistol/
A friend gave me an Armscor 1911 double stack for my birthday a few weeks ago. Haven't shot it yet because, as usual, I've been too busy to take time to do something "fun" like that.
I've done some research and found that the Armscor's are a entry level offering, but at least I'm in the .45 club now!
Speaking of Armscor, that same friend was telling me about another round that he loads for called a .22 TCM. Apparently Rock Island makes a 1911 type pistol that takes this load. Anyone heard of it? Link below:
https://www.theboxotruth.com/educational-zone-174-22-tcm-pistol/
Phillip Gross- Special Member
- Posts : 2557
Join date : 2013-05-14
Re: 9mm VS 45ACP
.22TCM is a odd round
40grain .22 bullet in a necked down 5.56 cartridge. Small bullet & lots of powder.
Super fast
40grain .22 bullet in a necked down 5.56 cartridge. Small bullet & lots of powder.
Super fast
_________________
Chris
Former Commander
MI Outpost 97 2008-2016
Re: 9mm VS 45ACP
It's a screamer for sure. I want to shoot one and see what I think. I'll let you know how it goes if I get a chance.
Phillip Gross- Special Member
- Posts : 2557
Join date : 2013-05-14
Re: 9mm VS 45ACP
On the 4th day he resurrects cold Lazarus!
_________________
Dan Bennett
Sr Commander (2007-2016)
N Central Area Communications Coord, CI (2016)
Outpost #215, Ohio District :flag:
GMA #83 Potomac Dist-#2366 Nat'l
"Be Ready, It wasn't raining when Noah built the Ark."
FCF Frontiersman 9/91
Free Trapper 2016
Training Seminars/Camps:
LTC LMA 5/94, Ranger Basics 1/05, LTA LMA 5/05, NTC IL 5/09, WCO 10/09, ICS 4/10, RKTC 7/10, Ranger Essentials 8/10, NRMC 10/11,
Outpost Leader Advancement Levels:
LMA-Advanced 10/11, MoE 2012-092
RR v1.0
Lima
Golf
Bravo
RRCmdrBennett- Moderator
- Posts : 3603
Join date : 2013-05-15
Age : 47
Location : Ohio
Re: 9mm VS 45ACP
I just looked at the data on the .22 TCM.
Shooting the 40 grain bullet at 2070 fps, it develops 381 foot/pounds of energy. That is about the same as a full-house .45 ACP.
Shooting the 40 grain bullet at 2800 fps, it develops 696 foot/pounds of energy. That is about the same as a full 10mm.
That's kind-of screaming.
Shooting the 40 grain bullet at 2070 fps, it develops 381 foot/pounds of energy. That is about the same as a full-house .45 ACP.
Shooting the 40 grain bullet at 2800 fps, it develops 696 foot/pounds of energy. That is about the same as a full 10mm.
That's kind-of screaming.
_________________
"Rangers Lead the Way"
18Z, 11B4X
"The last thing that I want to do is to hurt you,...................... but it's still on the list."
Claymore- Special Member
- Posts : 2760
Join date : 2013-05-17
Location : Northern Mississippi
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