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What Your Outpost Did This Week.

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Re: What Your Outpost Did This Week.

Post by Claymore on October 21st 2017, 11:25 am

Thanks.

We have a good time.

I try to tell the boys that, along with the Bible Lesson, and the Crafts, and the Leadership, part of Royal Rangers is to show that you can have Fun being a Christian.

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Re: What Your Outpost Did This Week.

Post by Claymore on October 21st 2017, 12:03 pm

Oh, another thing that I showed them (but didn't mention, because we do this every time that we have a Field Expedition) is that the Man in Charge eats after he makes sure that all of his troops get their food.

When we talked about it, I said, "What would happen, if I just got my food and went off to eat it, before the Little Guys got anything?". They agreed that there would, likely, be members of the Outpost who may not properly get fed.

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Re: What Your Outpost Did This Week.

Post by Phillip Gross on October 21st 2017, 9:19 pm

Seems like a lot of Christians forget that part. Get so wrapped up in the do's and don'ts that they forget to "have fun". Or they get so wrapped up in having fun that they forget the other. That whole "balance" thing is tricky sometimes...
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Re: What Your Outpost Did This Week.

Post by RRCmdrBennett on October 21st 2017, 11:58 pm

Man is a creature of extremes. The ends of a spectrum make us feel secure.

Claymore, Always wondered what is the strangest or most interesting question a boy has ever asked you about your military service?

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Re: What Your Outpost Did This Week.

Post by Claymore on October 22nd 2017, 12:22 am

Not so much a whole lot of anything.  Maybe, because I kind-of bring the Military Atmosphere to them.

Example:

(Of course, this involved the 12 year-old kid from a broken family who is always getting into trouble....)

End of the last day of Firearms Safety Class.  The Range is closed, and all issued BB's have been expended (I have a table at the back of the hall that is the "Ammunition Point", and I issue BB 's to them in lots of 5 BB's, and count each shot, so I know when all of the ammunition is gone).

CRACK

Me, "Who fired that shot?"

Ranger Contraire, "Me."

Me, "I didn't issue you ammunition.  Where did you get that ammunition from?"

Ranger Contraire, "From outside, in my Grandpa's truck."

Me, "YOU brought UNAUTHORIZED Ammunition onto my Range?  Do you know what would happen to you, if you did that in the Marine Corps?  They would throw you in the Brigg, Court-Martial you, and give you a Dishonorable Discharge.  You're off this Range.  And tell your Grandmother that I want to talk to her NOW!"

Like I said, they pretty get about as much Military-Style Leadership as they can handle.

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Re: What Your Outpost Did This Week.

Post by Mark Jones on October 22nd 2017, 7:14 am

Bam. Slam. Cram. We all make mistakes like this one. Screaming at a kid for making a innocent mistake of shooting a BB. Reminds me of a boy that just bought a sheath knife was going back to his camp at Pow Wow and I observed another leader saw him carrying a knife unsheathed and jumped all over this kid. (most likely ruined this boys pow wow camp experience) When the boy left after being screamed at.. I asked the leader you could have handled that differently and gave the boy a piece of cloth or a rag or some cardboard and made him a temp sheath.

I saw the boy later on with his new knife and a new sheath and he pretty much said he was wrong for carrying it that way and that that commander was a jerk. GRIN!

I have a lot of patience with the older boys. They are constantly trying to be smarter than the plan. Always on the lookout for the young man that brings the airsoft gun to a bat cave campout or fireworks to a national park.... We get some leaders in that are by the book bob and they run off the boys because the boys don't know the book and don't like being yelled at.

Now having said all that. You and I have many times told these guys the rules up front and they disobeyed us. That can get more pointed.

One of the leaders got a 1000.00 dollar fine from a park warden in one of the national parks because unknown to him one of his boys brought a firecracker and set it off ONCE and the leader got the HAMMER!

I have 25 years of memories I could talk about...being forgiving and kind does a much better than administering the hammer. I have used the HAMMER and it almost always ends in the boys leaving Rangers sad to say. We all make mistakes. Were blessed if we don't get caught in our mistake. God has a way of bringing us around. Man just loves ruining lives "they deserved it".

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Re: What Your Outpost Did This Week.

Post by Claymore on October 22nd 2017, 9:54 am

Mark, not with ammunition.

The ammunition on my range is controlled, and every one of them knows the rules.  

I have 7 year-olds who can follow the rules.  This kid knew that the ammunition point was closed, and so he snuck outside, got BB's from his grandfather's truck, and then fired a shot on the range when it was closed, and there were other people in the area (we had just finished graduation).

It was not an innocent mistake, it was a Willful Range Violation.

We also shoot .22 rifles, shotguns, and black powder, and we follow the same range rules.   If I am "forgiving" about sneaking an unauthorized BB on-to the Range and firing it without permission, then why would I be surprised, if he snuck a 12-Gauge Slug onto the Trap Range and let loose with it past someone's head, unsupervised.

I cut the kids a lot of slack.  But on Firearms and Rappelling, I let them know that there is no room for compromise.  

Before we ever get on the rocks, I bark out a command, like "Don't Move".  I then explain that if I yelled like that, it could well-be a Life or Death Situation (like a rope that is not attached correctly, or a snake in the rocks).  We can talk about the situation afterwards, but when I bark out a command on the rocks or the range, it is to be obeyed without hesitation or discussion.

Adventure Sports have to be done within guidelines to be safe.  I know a man who lost an eye from a BB, 50 years ago.  I've personally known 2 persons who died from impacts from Skydiving.  I know 3 people who died in separate Aircraft Accidents.  I've seen numerous bodies from gunshot deaths.

Again, this was not an "Innocent Mistake".  This is the kid who knows the rules, but feels that they don't apply to him, and he will keep violating them until he is stopped.  If one kid loses an eye from a BB on the Range, it is the permanent disability to a kid, and it is the Church, Pastor, Board of Elders, & me being sued, the end of the Ranger Program, & possibly the end of the Church.   

Let's think about this.  This is not a personal attack, but you (correctly) complained that Ranger Programs are being dismantled by Attorneys and "Safety Committees".  If I don't run "Adventure Training" by the Safety Book, there won't be any adventure training.  

I explain the rules to the kids, and tell them that there is no compromise on them.  If they don't like it, they can go make Paper Christmas Ornaments with the Bluebells (plastic scissors, only).

As an Nationally Certified Instructor, how can I issue a Firearms Safety Merit, if the kids don't operate the Firearms.. ........................ Safely?

(By the way, the kid did get his Merit, but only after we had a talk that it was like a Driver's License. It can be revoked, if he doesn't follow the rules that it was issued under.)

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Re: What Your Outpost Did This Week.

Post by Mark Jones on October 22nd 2017, 1:27 pm

Yup you made my points as well. Don't be so hard on yourself. You did the right thing.

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Re: What Your Outpost Did This Week.

Post by Claymore on October 22nd 2017, 3:05 pm

Thanks.

I've had a mother in Milwaukee get down on me, when I closed down a .22 Rifle Range, when the kids were destructive (to make a long story short, I released them for a break after lunch, they went to the sand box that belonged to the Custodian's children, and intentionally wrecked the toys).

I informed them that, if I cannot trust them with toys, then I cannot trust them with .22 rifles.

A mother got down on me and said, "That's not how Jesus would have handled it."

If someone had gotten shot, Jesus could have healed him; I couldn't.

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Re: What Your Outpost Did This Week.

Post by RRCmdrBennett on October 22nd 2017, 4:18 pm

Claymore wrote:Thanks.

I've had a mother in Milwaukee get down on me, when I closed down a .22 Rifle Range, when the kids were destructive (to make a long story short, I released them for a break after lunch, they went to the sand box that belonged to the Custodian's children, and intentionally wrecked the toys).  

I informed them that, if I cannot trust them with toys, then I cannot trust them with .22 rifles.

A mother got down on me and said, "That's not how Jesus would have handled it."

If someone had gotten shot, Jesus could have healed him; I couldn't.  

Quote parable of the talents. To the wicked servant he cast out for not handling well what was given him. The other two were given more when they performed well.

Btw, what was her reaction to the Jesus could heal them you couldn't?

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Re: What Your Outpost Did This Week.

Post by Claymore on October 22nd 2017, 6:10 pm

I'm afraid that I didn't think of that reply until later.

But I have had problem with "people" (a/ka women) wanting me to change or lower the standards or the Code of Conduct for activities.

I have brought that idea up with the boys. I said to them, "....of course, if we drop the standards for Conduct & Safety, then instead of Rappelling, Shooting, Reloading Ammunition, and doing Map & Compass Courses, we will sit around in a circle in the Ranger Room and read stories about Bobby the Bunny and Billy the Bear."

They decided that they would rather keep the high Standard of Conduct.

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Re: What Your Outpost Did This Week.

Post by RRCmdrBennett on October 24th 2017, 12:10 am

Claymore wrote:I'm afraid that I didn't think of that reply until later.

But I have had problem with "people" (a/ka women) wanting me to change or lower the standards or the Code of Conduct for activities.  

I have brought that idea up with the boys.  I said to them, "....of course, if we drop the standards for Conduct & Safety, then instead of Rappelling, Shooting, Reloading Ammunition, and doing Map & Compass Courses, we will sit around in a circle in the Ranger Room and read stories about Bobby the Bunny and Billy the Bear."

They decided that they would rather keep the high Standard of Conduct.

That's because their coming from an emotionally based view that we don't want to hurt lil Johnny's feelings. No offense meant but men abdicating their role of leader to make the women happy is why we have a "participation trophy" culture.

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Re: What Your Outpost Did This Week.

Post by Claymore on October 24th 2017, 12:50 am

Dan, you're absolutely correct.

I try to make being a Ranger something special in the church that the boys can be proud of.

I also try to make all awards "achievable" by all of the boys, but there is only one "participation" award, and that is the Bible Merit. Because we have a brief Bible Lesson in each meeting, then for each 8 meetings that a boy attends. he gets a Bible Merit.

I've had kids in the past who came to one meeting every 5 weeks, and then came to the Awards Ceremony, expecting the same as those boys who faithfully attended and completed the Program Requirements.

(Incidentally, they were from the same families who only had perfect attendance on Sundays when there was free food in the Fellowship Hall.)

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Re: What Your Outpost Did This Week.

Post by Mark Jones on October 24th 2017, 6:59 am

We do need balance. I have seen men and woman that come in barking orders and being "by the book" and miss the whole concept of boys ministry.

Camporama a few years back. Food pavilion. Boy missed the icecream on his way through. I told him to go back up there and get yours.
He came back almost in tears (younger boy). I said lets go. I walked with him back up to the icecream handout and said this young man didn't get his icecream as he passed through. The offending "Lady" said nope he can't have one. I looked at her and said..."Really" are you sure a 10 year old boy that made a simple mistake of not picking up his icecream lost his his only chance to have icecream on this hot 103 degree day? She looked at me. I looked back at her...she relented and gave the boy icecream.
I said thank you and please remember these boys are not perfect and very often forget what they are supposed to be doing.

Later in the week we had a chance to talk as I thanked her for her service there at the food pavilion. In our small talk I asked if her husband was here helping as well... "nope, he left me many years ago". I felt bad for her. Yet couldn't blame her husband after seeing her demeanor.

It's a balance we walk. There is good and bad points of participation awards.... in many cases we need everyone is a winner. In other cases we need to make them strive to be the best 'ranger' at what they are doing and run past all the participants being the best. "Work at it as unto the Lord" is still the best!

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Re: What Your Outpost Did This Week.

Post by Claymore on October 24th 2017, 12:28 pm

Oh, what a coincidence!

I didn't mention it, but the husband of the woman who got all over me on how to run a rifle range left her.

I have a simple rule in my life: "Don't criticize someone else doing the work, if you can't or won't help or do a better job".

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Re: What Your Outpost Did This Week.

Post by RRCmdrBennett on October 24th 2017, 7:05 pm

I'm detecting a pattern...

Unless I earned it the only participation award I wanted was the event patch! I usually got a couple extra for trades!

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Challenge Trophy Camp Out (CTC)

Post by Roguedawg on October 27th 2017, 1:13 am

So last week-end I took my kids to an event called the "Challenge Trophy Camp Out  (CTC)"  It is an international scouting event held that past 19 years in Ovid, NY.  I just learned about the event and it is only an hour and 15 minutes away from home. I was told of this event from Troop 6 from Towanda, PA.  The SM and his wife run the troop.  They are pastors of a small Baptist church and they knew of me through a local Christian School that had 10 or so boys from the Outpost.  My troop and my daughters troop was not interested in attending, so we went anyway with the other troop.  I also told a buddy of mine and his troop attended.  They were only 30 minutes from the event and they never even heard about it!

This event is huge with over 2,000 Boy and Girls Scouts in attendance from the USA and Canada.  They have about 700 events that the scouts can do.  The cost was only $15 for the week-end.  Of course the adults were required to work stations for 4 hours and then enjoy the rest of the event.  They scouts had to complete as many events out of 4 categories.  When they complete the 4 events, they run to a tent and get a patch.  Our scouts were only able to complete 24 stations and earned 6 patches.  Too much to do and so little time to do it!

The patches are amazing and have a theme to them.  This year is was birds of prey.  Other years was song birds, fish, or some other animal or insect.  There are a total of 60 patches.  Even buying a set of 60 patches was only $60.

Of course the biggest thing was the patch trading.  

Please read over the events.  They may give you ideas for your own OP, Sectional or District events.  I was bummed out since I wanted to see the Demolition Derby Race.  We did get to get to know some Canadian Scout Troops.  "Eh."

I have an error message stating that I can not post external links but if you are interested you can Google search "challengetrophycamporee" and find it on your own.

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Re: What Your Outpost Did This Week.

Post by RRCmdrBennett on October 28th 2017, 12:13 pm

Roguedawg wrote:So last week-end I took my kids to an event called the "Challenge Trophy Camp Out  (CTC)"  It is an international scouting event held that past 19 years in Ovid, NY.  I just learned about the event and it is only an hour and 15 minutes away from home. I was told of this event from Troop 6 from Towanda, PA.  The SM and his wife run the troop.  They are pastors of a small Baptist church and they knew of me through a local Christian School that had 10 or so boys from the Outpost.  My troop and my daughters troop was not interested in attending, so we went anyway with the other troop.  I also told a buddy of mine and his troop attended.  They were only 30 minutes from the event and they never even heard about it!

This event is huge with over 2,000 Boy and Girls Scouts in attendance from the USA and Canada.  They have about 700 events that the scouts can do.  The cost was only $15 for the week-end.  Of course the adults were required to work stations for 4 hours and then enjoy the rest of the event.  They scouts had to complete as many events out of 4 categories.  When they complete the 4 events, they run to a tent and get a patch.  Our scouts were only able to complete 24 stations and earned 6 patches.  Too much to do and so little time to do it!

The patches are amazing and have a theme to them.  This year is was birds of prey.  Other years was song birds, fish, or some other animal or insect.  There are a total of 60 patches.  Even buying a set of 60 patches was only $60.

Of course the biggest thing was the patch trading.  

Please read over the events.  They may give you ideas for your own OP, Sectional or District events.  I was bummed out since I wanted to see the Demolition Derby Race.  We did get to get to know some Canadian Scout Troops.  "Eh."

I have an error message stating that I can not post external links but if you are interested you can Google search "challengetrophycamporee" and find it on your own.

Excellent and long time no see.

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Re: What Your Outpost Did This Week.

Post by Phillip Gross on November 5th 2017, 10:27 pm

We continued on the primitive shelters merit with my AER group (AR + ER). We're three weeks into it, but we'll finish it up this coming Friday out in the field. We had an outpost camp planned for this coming weekend anyway, so we (the AER's) decided to go out earlier in the day to have time to build their shelters before the rest of the boys get there.

It just so happens that all of the AER's go to our school, which observes Veteran's Day, so they'll have Friday off from school. Some of the boys in DR go to public school, so they'll be coming out later in the afternoon. Should be a good weekend for it!
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Re: What Your Outpost Did This Week.

Post by RRCmdrBennett on November 6th 2017, 1:53 am

Pictures of shelters or it didn't happen haha

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LTC LMA 5/94, Ranger Basics 1/05, LTA LMA 5/05, NTC IL 5/09, WCO 10/09, ICS 4/10, RKTC 7/10, Ranger Essentials 8/10, NRMC 10/11,
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Re: What Your Outpost Did This Week.

Post by Phillip Gross on November 6th 2017, 8:53 am

Oh I'll be taking lots of pictures! We've (us commanders) have been bad about remembering to take pictures at events the past couple years and it's been annoying at COA's because the girls have tons of pics of what they did, and we barely have any... We always do slide shows put to music at COA to show the friends and families what their kids did. Lately it looked like the AHG's did a ton of stuff while the RR's didn't do anything! So I've been trying to been conscious about taking pics of what we're doing this year.
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Re: What Your Outpost Did This Week.

Post by RRCmdrBennett on November 9th 2017, 4:01 pm

With cameras built into every phone today no excuses Commander.

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"Be Ready, It wasn't raining when Noah built the Ark."

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Re: What Your Outpost Did This Week.

Post by Phillip Gross on November 10th 2017, 6:38 am

It's not the lack of photographic equipment, but rather the remembering to use it. Wink
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Re: What Your Outpost Did This Week.

Post by RRCmdrBennett on November 10th 2017, 1:40 pm

Phillip Gross wrote:It's not the lack of photographic equipment, but rather the remembering to use it. Wink

Find someone witb a passion for photography and videography and give them the job of Historian.

_________________
Dan Bennett
Sr Commander (2007-2016)
N Central Area Communications Coord, CI (2016)
RR Outpost #215, Ohio District :flag:
RR GMA #83 Potomac Dist-#2366 Nat'l

"Be Ready, It wasn't raining when Noah built the Ark."

fire FCF Frontiersman 9/91 fire
Free Trapper 2016
Training Seminars/Camps:
LTC LMA 5/94, Ranger Basics 1/05, LTA LMA 5/05, NTC IL 5/09, WCO 10/09, ICS 4/10, RKTC 7/10, Ranger Essentials 8/10, NRMC 10/11,
Outpost Leader Advancement Levels:
LMA-Advanced 10/11, MoE 2012-092

RR v1.99

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Re: What Your Outpost Did This Week.

Post by Phillip Gross on November 11th 2017, 5:49 pm

I've mentioned that we need more photos, but I seem to be the only one snapping pics. Maybe with the number of commanders I have now, I may need to transition to overall visionary/leader, and "historian" and allow them to lead the merits and such. It's just that I enjoy teaching the boys too...
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Re: What Your Outpost Did This Week.

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