Search
 
 

Display results as :
 


Rechercher Advanced Search

Keywords

Latest topics
» Joke of the Day
by RRCmdrBennett Today at 12:23 am

» Thanksgiving
by RRCmdrBennett Yesterday at 9:15 pm

» November 2017 Thread
by RRCmdrBennett Yesterday at 12:10 pm

» Treasure Hunt Trivia
by RRCmdrBennett November 12th 2017, 10:26 pm

» What Your Outpost Did This Week.
by RRCmdrBennett November 12th 2017, 1:38 pm

» Culture Rot
by joecool November 10th 2017, 5:25 pm

» Church Security
by RRCmdrBennett November 10th 2017, 1:28 pm

» Eye of the Needle once again! It's a Wow backpack
by Mark Jones November 6th 2017, 3:51 pm

» Hello, a quick introduction
by CalvinM November 6th 2017, 9:37 am

Statistics
We have 86 registered users
The newest registered user is CalvinM

Our users have posted a total of 13400 messages in 713 subjects

Can God use rock music?

View previous topic View next topic Go down

Can God use rock music?

Post by Phillip Gross on August 8th 2014, 12:31 pm

I found this article written by Keith Green on the topic of contemporary, or rock music. I agree with his conclusion on the topic. See what you think...

Can God Use Rock Music?
by Keith Green


This is a hard article for me to write, mainly because I'm afraid people will think that my opinions would have to be prejudiced by the fact that I am involved in (what has come to be known as) "contemporary Christian music." As you might guess, the title of this article is no new question to me. Since I myself have been somewhat "guilty" of using the medium of rock, I have heard just about every opinion about it - and have received no limit of warning, exhortation, and outright rebuke from many a well-meaning soul. Since I take my negative mail very seriously - always reading each negative and corrective letter as a possible word or warning from God - I have had to listen closely to each argument - praying and thinking the whole thing through with eternal values in mind.

Although I have always wanted to address this subject publicly, I have only just answered the questions privately, seeking to avoid controversy. But now I believe the time has come for me to openly tackle this question, mainly because the Lord has been teaching me so much lately about motives and how they are the bottom line in just about everything!

Please realize that these are just my opinions, I am certainly no authority on scriptural truth - or music (except maybe my own). These are just some of the answers I have come up with after many years of studying this question with fear and trembling before the Lord. But like everything else, you should seek the Lord on your own for answers to difficult questions. I only hope to give you some things to think about.
The Prevailing Opinions

There seem to be two different and widely opposite schools of thought concerning whether or not God can use something as questionable as rock and roll as a tool for evangelism, or even (forgive me!) in worship.

One line of reasoning believes that rock and roll, whether secular or "so-called gospel," should not ever be listened to, or used as a medium by Christians. The reason given is simply that it is "of the devil." There are many statistics and "proofs" used by adherents to this position to prove that rock music itself is the direct cause of everything from drug abuse to teen-age pregnancy. And most people who hold this view are sincerely convinced that anyone who indulges in the use of rock music in any form cannot truly be used or blessed by God.

The other school of thought is the one that believes that God can redeem and use anything - and just because rock music is so prevalent in the world doesn't mean that God's people can't use the same medium to reach those still lost in that world. After all (the people who defend this position say), "Christians are supposed to be "in the world, and not of it!"1 and didn't Paul say that he "became all things to all men that he might save some?"2
The View From Here

Of course, I have always leaned toward the second school of thought, but I think that sometimes this group has taken things a little too far, doing a lot in the name of "freedom" that I believe is grievous to the Lord, because it tends to stumble a lot of little ones. We should not forget that Paul also said, "Do not turn your freedom into an opportunity for the flesh."3

It is because of these abuses of freedom that I have chosen to remain silent on this issue. I have not taken up my pen to defend the "Christian rockers" because frankly, I have been just as much offended by most of what I've heard and seen as any sweet ole Christian grandma who accidentally stumbles into a blaring-loud gospel concert.

It isn't the beat that offends me, nor the volume - It's the spirit. It's the "Look at me!" attitude I have seen in concert after concert, and the "Can't you see we're as good as the world?" syndrome I have heard on record after record. Jesus doesn't want us to be as good as the world, He wants us to be better! And that doesn't mean excelling them in sound, style, or talent - it means surpassing them in value - in our motives for being up there on stage, in our reasons for singing our songs, and especially in who we're singing for! If there's anything wrong or worldly at all about so-called "Christian rock," it's the self-exalting spirit and attitude that comes across so loud and clear in many of the records and concerts today.

(Please don't get me wrong. I do not want to appear self-righteous, or to be saying - "All those musicians and artists should have such exemplary attitudes and motives as I do!" Believe me, I have struggled over these same things myself for many years, and these are things that the Lord has taught me for my own life and public ministry.)
But What About All Those "Jungle-Rhythm" Stories?

You've probably heard one of those stories about the missionary family that was stationed near a tribe of cannibalistic, voodoo warriors? Well, as the story goes, the missionary had a couple of teen-agers who just loved to listen to "Christian rock." And one day, as they were playing one of their albums up real loud, a witch doctor came running out of the jungle and said, "Why are you trying to call up devils with that music? Don't you realize that those are the same rhythms we use to contact demons in our rituals?" I've heard this story many times, and in many different forms, but it always seems to prove that, "There you have it! Rock and roll is a product of hell - even if it is called "gospel rock!"

Now, I've always joked to myself that this story must have been started by some craggy old missionary who'd been out on the field for 20 years - and when he arrived back in the states, he just about died when he heard the latest gospel music. (Either that, or the witch doctor who came out of the jungle was a recent graduate from a conservative seminary!)

But seriously, I highly doubt that this story is true - and even if it is, it doesn't mean that all "music with a beat" will make your family need an exorcist. What we need to look into now is this question: Is there such a thing as "evil music"? To that question, I would have to answer a definite, "Yes!" but my reasons for calling some music "evil" may surprise you.
What Is Evil Music?

"I know and am convinced in the Lord Jesus, that nothing is unclean in itself; but to him who thinks anything is unclean, to him it is unclean."4

I do not believe that any kind of music is "evil" in itself. I mean, that there are no such things as rhythms or chord structures or melody lines that were born in hell. The idea that the devil has invented certain styles of music so that he could capture the innocent young souls of today's youth is not only without foundation, but is the same kind of ridiculous tale that was told to young people by the church as recently as a generation ago - that "masturbation could cause blindness." Why try to scare the poor little guys into doing what's right? Why not deal with the real problem - selfishness!

The suggestion that there is such a thing as intrinsically5 "good music or evil music" seems preposterous to me. I have been involved with almost every aspect of music my whole life, and I have witnessed the various effects it has had on me and other people - and I have to say that I have never once seen a case where music was the direct cause of sin or wickedness in a person's life.

On the other hand, I have seen music be used as a tool for selfishness and egotism in people's lives (as well as my own). I have also seen it be used to create sensual moods by people with lust and manipulation on their minds. I have seen rock groups that were admittedly worshippers of Satan, and were open practioners of black witchcraft, who employed music as a tool to mesmerize their audiences. Yes, I must admit that it would appear to the casual observer that anyone involved with rock music could at least be charged with "guilt by association."

But all the examples I mentioned above have to do with the motives of the heart, not the music itself! That is why I believe that music, in itself, is a neutral force. Let me give you a better example.

Take a knife for instance. With it, you can cut bread, carve a roast, loose someone who's been bound by ropes, or you can do harm and even kill somebody. In other words, you can be creative and productive, or you can be destructive and murderous. The knife itself, when put in an atmosphere of hoodlums, becomes a weapon. But put it in a kitchen, and it becomes a tool that's useful, even necessary, for the preparation of nourishment for your family.

As another example, let's look at "David's dancing." The Bible says that King David was "dancing before the Lord with all his might!"6 But today, people dance in bars and discos, and then afterwards, many indulge in alcohol, drugs, and illicit sex. Does that mean that dancing produces a desire for drugs, sex, and alcohol? You and I both know that yes, movement of the body can excite someone. But someone has to have wicked desires to start with to have any outer stimulation increase those desires. I have seen Christians "dancing in the Spirit." I have also seen Christians dancing in the flesh. It wasn't the dancing that was evil, or the music they danced to, but the attitude and motive of their heart.
Should Mexicans Learn English?

Now, we don't make the people of Mexico learn English before we preach the Gospel to them, do we? The only reason that I have ever used contemporary music at all in my ministry is because I believe it is the "language" of the young people. After I have received piles of letters saying things like, "I never would have listened to what you had to say, unless I had first been attracted to the music!" - I am convinced that the only way to reach those who love music is in their own language!

Have you ever heard the stories of how John and Charles Wesley took many of the popular "drinking songs" of their day and put Christian lyrics to them? And it didn't matter how much success they had in reaching sinners using these tunes - most of the people in the church absolutely deplored their methods!

And then the Salvation Army came along, and had the nerve to put hymns to marching music - and then proceeded to play and sing these "lewd songs" (as the traditional church of their day called them) out in the streets on Sundays! They even followed in the Wesley brothers' footsteps, taking tunes from the drunk-filled taverns, and "converting" them into worshipful choruses, or ringing appeals for people to surrender their lives to Christ! And never have there been so many "common people" converted in England than through the unorthodox efforts of those early "Salvation Soldiers."

Oh, how harmless those melodies would sound now to our grandparents' ears. But their grandparents thought that the devil himself was on the loose with music-demons!

There are those today who still believe that we should use only nice, "wholesome" music to reach young people. Otherwise, (they say) we are only appealing to their sinful rebellion, and we will later find that any conversions resulting from the use of rock music were not really authentic after all. One well-known evangelist recently went so far as to say that, "No one has ever gotten a blessing from contemporary Christian music!"

This kind of reasoning is as narrow as that of the early missionaries to China. They thought that the best way to "Christianize" the people would be to teach them their European standards of dress and living, and thus "civilize" the heathen - as well as convert them. But a young and zealous missionary by the name of Hudson Taylor changed all that - he knew that the only way to reach people was with the truth of the Gospel. And he knew that it was wrong to add any cultural or "outward" conformity to the precepts of truth he so earnestly believed. And so he discarded his European clothing, and began to identify with the people he was trying to reach by dressing like them and adopting their customs. Although he was initially ridiculed and shunned by his fellow missionaries, his ultimate success proved that God was indeed leading him.7
Placing People Under the "Law"

It seems that Paul had these same "cultural" problems in the early Church, with those Jewish believers who wanted new converts to first embrace the Jewish law and customs before they could be considered Christians.8 I believe that trying to change people's musical tastes, before we allow them to hear the truth, is just as wrong as it was for the Jews to try to push circumcision on the Gentiles as a necessary prerequisite for eternal life. The Bible is clear that we should put no stumbling blocks in the way of people receiving God's precious gift of salvation!
Conclusion: It's All In the Motives!

I am convinced that the potential of reaching people for Jesus through the media - whether it be records, radio, movies, or television - is monumental, simply because these are the things that have, and continue to hold, people's attention. I truly believe that Christians who are completely sold out to God, using these tools, can bring people to their knees in repentance and lead them into the waiting arms of the Savior. But if their lives are not sold out - if their motives are mixed, and their hearts divided - then I only see ridicule and shame brought to the Gospel. And since this is the case so much of the time, it makes it hard and shines a bad light - even on those whose hearts are clean, and whose motives are pure.

I also want to say in closing that yes, I do believe that the Holy Spirit is grieved by a lot of what is being passed today as "music ministry" and "gospel music" - not so much by the beat or content, but by the lack of commitment and anointing. But just because people with darkened hearts still use rock music as a medium for rebellion and self-exaltation, doesn't mean that the same style of music can't be used by people submitted to God to capture the attention of sinners; and lead them away from self - and to the throne of Christ!

After all, don't many cults use the same Bible that we cherish as God's Holy Word, and yet distort and twist the meaning "to their own destruction"?9 And didn't the devil himself quote Scripture to Jesus? As you can see, a wicked heart can pervert even the most holy and beautiful of things. And in the same way, God can take even the filthiest of vessels and use it for His glory.10 (Just look at you and me!) Believe me, if your heart is right, then your music will be right too. But if your heart is full of selfishness and pride, then even if you sing the sweetest hymn, your song will work death and not life. For...

"A good man, out of the good treasure of his heart, brings forth what is good, and an evil man, out of the evil treasure, brings forth what is evil, for his mouth speaks from that which fills his heart."11

Footnotes:
1) John 17:11, 15-16.
2) I Corintians 9:22
3) Galatians 5:13
4) Romans 14:14
5) Good or evil in itself
6) II Samuel 6:14
7) Hudson Taylor's Spiritual Secret, by Dr. and Mrs. Howard Taylor; Moody Press, Chicago, IL 60610.
8 ) Galatians 5:1-1
avatar
Phillip Gross
Super Star Member
Super Star Member

Posts : 2368
Join date : 2013-05-14

Back to top Go down

Re: Can God use rock music?

Post by Mark Jones on August 8th 2014, 1:31 pm

There is a spirit to the music. It's pretty evident by the fruit it produces.

Music can be used for good and bad. Sad to say I feel very much of it is used for bad. Even in the church there is stuff that is just garbage.

If one puts Christian words to a beat with a bad spirit it's still a bad spirit.

When I was younger... I drove around with my mind blower speakers and didn't care about anyone or their opinions. Young people have little wisdom even college grads often have almost no wisdom.

I enjoy songs of praise and worship and detest screamo Christianize garbage..it makes me want to punch the person playing it.../GRIN?

That Base that comes from those cars driving down the street... I do my best to pull up next to them and put my truck in reverse and let my BEEP, BEEP, BEEP annoyance come into play and I just grin at them.

Mark Jones
avatar
Mark Jones
Star member
Star member

Posts : 1583
Join date : 2013-05-16
Age : 58
Location : Springfield Missouri

http://readyrangers.tzo.com

Back to top Go down

Re: Can God use rock music?

Post by Claymore on August 8th 2014, 10:00 pm

The author correctly brings up that there are quite a few Christian songs that were considered to be irreverent "back in the day".

At one time, the mainstream worship was "Gregorian Chant".

I grew up in the 1960's, and the Beatles' songs "She Loves You, Yeah Yeah Yeah" and "I want to Hold Your Hand" were considered by our parents as nothing but pounding noise.

I am not a fan of "head banging" music, but I actually enjoy about 25% of Petra's sons.

Matthew West's song "Do Something" can get into yelling and a bit loud, but it gives us a message to search our souls to.

So, while I do not find Heavy Metal music as edifying, if young people are going to listen to it for recreation, I think that it is better for them to hear the message of Jesus, Morality, and Salvation, rather than the filthy lyrics that much of the secular stuff has.

_________________
"Rangers Lead the Way"

18Z,        11B4X

"The last thing that I want to do is to hurt you,...................... but it's still on the list."
avatar
Claymore
Super Star Member
Super Star Member

Posts : 2120
Join date : 2013-05-17
Location : Northern Mississippi

Back to top Go down

Re: Can God use rock music?

Post by RRCmdrBennett on August 9th 2014, 6:35 pm

Does using that kind of music lead Christians to listening to the same music with satanic lyrics...?

It is true that what was once thought demonic noise seems trivial to us now. My father inlaw likes Elvis the so-called King of Rock but thinks anything but southern gospel and bluegrass is Rock n Roll even if its pop, alternative, r&b, rap, etc. He can be a walking contradiction. Bound to an "Advice to Members" document created sometime in the 20's I believe. I asked him straight up why don't they go to movie theaters to watch the same movie they buy at Walmart. He said "its written somewhere" meaning the document I mentioned. Whether worldly or church we're all dumb sheep for the most part.

I only take issue with music when the sound or beat is so deafening no one not even kids can understand the lyrics. The message is paramount. Its far better to have words with no music than music with no words. Worship in Spirit and in Truth!

Biblically, there is no reference in the NT to indicate any instrumentals were used in worship.

_________________
Dan Bennett
Sr Commander (2007-2016)
N Central Area Communications Coord, CI (2016)
RR Outpost #215, Ohio District :flag:
RR GMA #83 Potomac Dist-#2366 Nat'l

"Be Ready, It wasn't raining when Noah built the Ark."

fire FCF Frontiersman 9/91 fire
Free Trapper 2016
Training Seminars/Camps:
LTC LMA 5/94, Ranger Basics 1/05, LTA LMA 5/05, NTC IL 5/09, WCO 10/09, ICS 4/10, RKTC 7/10, Ranger Essentials 8/10, NRMC 10/11,
Outpost Leader Advancement Levels:
LMA-Advanced 10/11, MoE 2012-092

RR v1.99

avatar
RRCmdrBennett
Moderator
Moderator

Posts : 3365
Join date : 2013-05-15
Age : 41
Location : Ohio

Back to top Go down

Re: Can God use rock music?

Post by Claymore on August 9th 2014, 7:28 pm

I had mentioned a church in Milwaukee where the older members were driven out by a Youth Pastor who became Senior Pastor.  Much of the music that they were playing in the Praise & Worship part of the service was Lincoln Brewster and similar.

I think that Lincoln Brewster is a nice young man with a good message.  But his music that I am familiar with is Christian Performance Music, and not Christian Congregational Praise Music.

Now if the Praise Team wants to play that music while the folks are coming into the Sanctuary or during the Offering, fine.  But I don't think that it works as Congregational Praise (at least not if you want your older & more affluent members to participate).

_________________
"Rangers Lead the Way"

18Z,        11B4X

"The last thing that I want to do is to hurt you,...................... but it's still on the list."
avatar
Claymore
Super Star Member
Super Star Member

Posts : 2120
Join date : 2013-05-17
Location : Northern Mississippi

Back to top Go down

Re: Can God use rock music?

Post by joecool on August 9th 2014, 9:51 pm

Went to church in Seattle last Sunday with old friends. They're pretty conservative, so I assumed the church would be, too. The building was a converted (big) hardware store, so the ceilings were high. The platform looked like a rock concert stage. The young band members walked out and I figured I was ready for them. After all, I'd already been up for 3 hours. Oh, my! From the first note, it felt like I was in the mosh pit. The guitarists were bouncing and prancing all over. The message was totally lost, at least to me.

joecool
Star member
Star member

Posts : 1608
Join date : 2013-10-28

Back to top Go down

Re: Can God use rock music?

Post by RRCmdrBennett on August 9th 2014, 10:26 pm

Sometimes it felt like that at the last camporama.

_________________
Dan Bennett
Sr Commander (2007-2016)
N Central Area Communications Coord, CI (2016)
RR Outpost #215, Ohio District :flag:
RR GMA #83 Potomac Dist-#2366 Nat'l

"Be Ready, It wasn't raining when Noah built the Ark."

fire FCF Frontiersman 9/91 fire
Free Trapper 2016
Training Seminars/Camps:
LTC LMA 5/94, Ranger Basics 1/05, LTA LMA 5/05, NTC IL 5/09, WCO 10/09, ICS 4/10, RKTC 7/10, Ranger Essentials 8/10, NRMC 10/11,
Outpost Leader Advancement Levels:
LMA-Advanced 10/11, MoE 2012-092

RR v1.99

avatar
RRCmdrBennett
Moderator
Moderator

Posts : 3365
Join date : 2013-05-15
Age : 41
Location : Ohio

Back to top Go down

Re: Can God use rock music?

Post by Claymore on August 9th 2014, 10:33 pm

"The Ramp" in Hamilton, Alabama is only about 50 miles from my house. I would love to attend one of their services, except that I believe that I would stand out (being about 4-times the age of the average attendee).

So I have to be content to DVR it and watch it here at home.

_________________
"Rangers Lead the Way"

18Z,        11B4X

"The last thing that I want to do is to hurt you,...................... but it's still on the list."
avatar
Claymore
Super Star Member
Super Star Member

Posts : 2120
Join date : 2013-05-17
Location : Northern Mississippi

Back to top Go down

Re: Can God use rock music?

Post by ccm2361 on August 10th 2014, 4:31 pm

I agree with the articles conclusions.

For the Gospel to reach someone, it must be relevant to them.
You can preach the finest sermon you every preached, but if you are not speaking the same language as the people you are trying to reach, your message is lost on them.

Today's youth do not listen to choir & organ music. So attempting to reach them with it would be useless. speaking of organ, when first introduced to churches many older folk considered the organ to be an "instrument of the devil"  Smile 

times change & the vehicle for conveying the message must must change as well or it risks becoming irrelevant.

now I cant stand Christian death metal or rap groups, but if they speak to someones heart & help bring them into a relationship with the Lord, so be it.

_________________
Chris
Former Commander
MI Outpost 97 2008-2016
avatar
ccm2361
Admin
Admin

Posts : 1036
Join date : 2013-05-08
Age : 51
Location : St. Johns MI

http://rangerchat.forumotion.com

Back to top Go down

Re: Can God use rock music?

Post by Claymore on August 10th 2014, 4:56 pm

Yup. There's Chris being the calm voice of reason & understanding, again!

_________________
"Rangers Lead the Way"

18Z,        11B4X

"The last thing that I want to do is to hurt you,...................... but it's still on the list."
avatar
Claymore
Super Star Member
Super Star Member

Posts : 2120
Join date : 2013-05-17
Location : Northern Mississippi

Back to top Go down

Re: Can God use rock music?

Post by Phillip Gross on August 10th 2014, 11:02 pm

I appreciated the point he made concerning things that the devil uses as never being able to be holy. If that be the case we'd have to throw out all TV, movies, radio, books, and even the Bible because the enemy uses scripture all the time (distorted out of context of course) to trip people up.

I don't believe that any particular chords or rhythms are inherently evil. It's the spirit behind the musician. I admit that I've heard plenty of "Christian" bands that were not always pure from my perspective. Of course, there are plenty of pastors, evangelists, etc that also aren't always where they need to be either. I've heard evil messages delivered from tyrants and dictators that could easily have been a fire and brimstone message from a passionate pastor on Sunday morning as far as the enthusiasm of which it's delivered. Are intense deliveries of the gospel wrong just because Hitler was an intense orator?

The devil can dangle pride in front of anyone doing anything for God to get them off track. Even a praise and worship leader doing traditional songs can fall into self-pride and be singing the sweetest hymn from a hard heart.

I've been on praise teams for nearly 20 years and a P&W leader for almost 10 of those now. There have been times when I wasn't where I needed to be with God and I sang songs out of my own strength. My intensity and passion for the song may have carried it, but it didn't have the anointing covering like when I'm where I need to be. I get the most worried when things go "really well". When my guitar play and vocals are spot on. When the whole band is clicking along in perfect unison, it's easy to get prideful. Just like a pastor who starts thinking more highly of himself than he ought to when a congregation really starts growing. When things go really well nowadays, I hit my face before the Lord even more because I know my own heart. I'm a wretched man without the Spirit leading me. I can't afford to give satan even an inch because he'll take a mile if he gets his foot in the door.

How many in any ministry have fallen because they believed their own press, as the saying goes. God is a jealous God and won't share His glory with anyone. That is something we all have to remember, no matter what part of the body that we are.
avatar
Phillip Gross
Super Star Member
Super Star Member

Posts : 2368
Join date : 2013-05-14

Back to top Go down

Re: Can God use rock music?

Post by ccm2361 on August 10th 2014, 11:06 pm

Phillip Gross wrote: It's the spirit behind the musician

I think you nailed it Phil   

_________________
Chris
Former Commander
MI Outpost 97 2008-2016
avatar
ccm2361
Admin
Admin

Posts : 1036
Join date : 2013-05-08
Age : 51
Location : St. Johns MI

http://rangerchat.forumotion.com

Back to top Go down

Re: Can God use rock music?

Post by RRCmdrBennett on August 10th 2014, 11:13 pm

Let me pose this question: what is the purpose of worship music?  Is it a tool for evangelism or solely to worship God?  In the gospels did Jesus ever use music to reach the lost?  

Music tends to generate an emotional reaction but emotions change like rolling waves in the sea. Faith comes by hearing, hearing by the Word of God. It seems only in this modern age we think worship music is going to generate faith. Its not by might not by our works or whatever new thing we invent. Isn't this the crux of our issues with national's RR2.0 ditching camping in favor of other methods. It seems we're saying the same thing national is saying about Royal Rangers needing to be updated with multi focus activities but in regards to music. We are saying we have to embrace every musical genre just to maybe get a few souls saved. Its not the music, its not you, its not me, its not music, its not our persuasive arguments or our eloquent words that births faith. Its the Holy Spirit that convicts and births faith.

I am not against contemporary music.  I love both hymns and modern music (most of it).  Not all contemporary music is screeching hard edge rock. I'll tell you this a Royal Rangers cmdr in my old church ran a youth christian skate night using that hard edge rock with unintelligible lyrics. I helped run the register to sell tix into the rink. It was his son's Mike favorite music. His son was one of the worst behavior cases in our outpost. They quickly figured out most attendees were not into it. Not only that parents were complaining about it.  Kids were not into it either.

My requirement is that the message must be clear regardless of the genre. If the Word of God the Gospel is not clear its the same as me listening to a pastor speaking Portuguese. It does me no good because I can't understand that language.

Good points Philip!  I am so glad we can all debate things without getting angry!

_________________
Dan Bennett
Sr Commander (2007-2016)
N Central Area Communications Coord, CI (2016)
RR Outpost #215, Ohio District :flag:
RR GMA #83 Potomac Dist-#2366 Nat'l

"Be Ready, It wasn't raining when Noah built the Ark."

fire FCF Frontiersman 9/91 fire
Free Trapper 2016
Training Seminars/Camps:
LTC LMA 5/94, Ranger Basics 1/05, LTA LMA 5/05, NTC IL 5/09, WCO 10/09, ICS 4/10, RKTC 7/10, Ranger Essentials 8/10, NRMC 10/11,
Outpost Leader Advancement Levels:
LMA-Advanced 10/11, MoE 2012-092

RR v1.99

avatar
RRCmdrBennett
Moderator
Moderator

Posts : 3365
Join date : 2013-05-15
Age : 41
Location : Ohio

Back to top Go down

Re: Can God use rock music?

Post by Claymore on August 10th 2014, 11:58 pm

In the early 1960's, I remember hearing a radio preacher saying that, "...God gave us dominion over the earth, and man has conquered it; and God gave us dominion over the seas and the birds of the air, and we have made ships and airplanes; but God did not give us dominion over the stars, and man is disobeying and tempting God by flying into space in these rockets....."

He went on to say that the Space Program is the new Tower of Babel, and that we are inviting God's wrath for our disobedience....

(Personally, since I'm not aware of the Bible stating anything against Rock Music, I think that this Scriptural Lawyer may be making a better Biblical argument with his notion.)

_________________
"Rangers Lead the Way"

18Z,        11B4X

"The last thing that I want to do is to hurt you,...................... but it's still on the list."
avatar
Claymore
Super Star Member
Super Star Member

Posts : 2120
Join date : 2013-05-17
Location : Northern Mississippi

Back to top Go down

Re: Can God use rock music?

Post by Phillip Gross on August 11th 2014, 6:15 am

A couple thoughts in regards to your post, Dan, in regards to music and worship. It just so happens that God has been dealing with me about leading a compartmentalized life. Worshiping God isn't just singing slow songs.

Colossians 3:17 KJV

And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him.

Our life should be an expression of worship to God in all that we say and do. What jokes do we tell? Do they bring honor and glory to God? The movies and TV shows we watch, the music we listen to or sing. Whatever we do should be done as unto the Lord.

Jesus seemingly intentionally went against the grain of modern opinion in everything He did to prove to the Pharasees that the Kingdom wasn't by our natural efforts, but of the Spirit of God that leads us. He could have spoken a word and healed the leper. He spoke a word and the Centurion's servant, but Jesus chose to touch the leper to heal him. Why? To show that God wasn't limited by the law. The religious people were indignant that He broke that law.

Basically put, we like to place God in a little understandable box. "This is how He works"... "That isn't how He works". If a song brings someone to a reality of God, then I say it's a form of worship, because worship is nothing more than bringing glory to God.

I know this may be even more controversial, but I've heard songs done by bands that change a word or so to "convert" a popular secular song to "Christian" that have brought me to tears and made my heart ache for the Lord. Some might say that can't be done, but it did it for me. One such song was done by the band "Pillar". They aren't a screamo band, but they are what I would call heavy (there are so many sub-genras these days that I sometimes don't know what the official terms are). They did a cover of "Sunday Bloody Sunday" originally sung by U2. Pillar sang it almost completely like the original, but then added a little line that changed the entire song to one that is talking about what Jesus did on the cross. Yes, I know Jesus wasn't crusified on Sunday... but when I heard that rendition and they got to the climax and the part they changed, I wanted to jump up and cry out to the Lord in praise. Made the hair on my body stand up and I had to choke back tears because it took Jesus' sacrifice to front and center! Now you may listen to that song and get nothing, not being able to get past the fact that it was originally a U2 song. I don't kmow...



The other item you mentioned was the parallel between music and RR. I think a better comparison would ONE BAND and Royal Rangers. Could you imagine if one band tried to play everything from classical Mozart, to southern gospel, to modern day pop? How well could they do any of it? You might be able to "recognize" a tune, but there's no way they could master each discipline effectively. Music should be compared to all of ministry. Some ministries reach out to the homeless, some to pregnant teens, some to tribes in the Amazon, and some to young boys by hiking and camping. Music ministry has many outlets as well. Some to little old church ladies, some to African tribes, and some to young people who know there's something "out there", but are looking in all the wrong places. We are called to go eat with the tax collectors, prostitutes, and all the other wayward sheep. The people who might never step foot inside a church other than a wedding or funeral until they are transformed by Jesus. But how will they know unless we take the message to them?

Yes, we must be careful about the lyrics that we sing and play, because it's so easy to fall when you're walking I'm the world. It's easy to fall when you're reaching out in any area. The devil can use anything to trip us up. That's why it's so important to stay firmly planted in the Word and in prayer, not inside the four walls. Yes, there are seasons that someone needs a clean break from the world to renew their minds. There's a time to leave Egypt and wander in the wilderness to let the effects die off. Even Paul went away for awhile after his conversion. But then there's a time to come back to the very places you left to preach the gospel.

The problem is when we see believers go back to "minister" to people and then get sucked back in. The logical step for most Christians is to NOT go back around the world. "You know, Bill went back to minister and started smoking pot again, and isn't in church anymore. Don't go near the world if you want to stay close to God..." And other such nonsense. The problem is that "Bill" allowed himself to be consumed by the world instead of by God's Holy Spirit. It wasn't the abundance of the sin surrounding him, but the lack of God's Spirit as he went to the world. We should always be coming back to get refilled and recharged.

We need to take Jesus to the world. In music, in love, in charity.
avatar
Phillip Gross
Super Star Member
Super Star Member

Posts : 2368
Join date : 2013-05-14

Back to top Go down

Re: Can God use rock music?

Post by joecool on August 11th 2014, 4:23 pm

Most, if not all, of the psalms were originally sung. They contain all the best and the worst of man. And they also include the love AND the anger of God (when His people disobey). Been wracking my wrecked brain, but I can't think of any song since the 70's that covered the anger thing. Sure, it's not easy to tap your foot to, but I wonder if we've missed something here. Christian music is kind of like contemporary pulpit preaching. It tends to be a bit one-sided.

joecool
Star member
Star member

Posts : 1608
Join date : 2013-10-28

Back to top Go down

Re: Can God use rock music?

Post by Phillip Gross on August 11th 2014, 10:27 pm

I agree with you Bruce. That's why people turn away from God so easily. We (the church) teach that God is there to make our lives so much better. That He'll give us peace in the storm. That He'll give us these special gifts. Then when people decide that they don't need or want those things, they just walk away.

We sell a gospel that makes people think that God was created for our pleasure. Nope. WE were creates for His pleasure. Now we DO receive peace, joy, the gifts of the Spirit, etc when we're doing the will of the Father, but those are byproducts of that relationship. To borrow and modify a saying coined by our forefathers in this country about freedom and security; If you pursue a relationship with God, you'll get all the benefits of that relationship. If you pursue the benefits, then you'll get neither the relationship, nor the benefits...
avatar
Phillip Gross
Super Star Member
Super Star Member

Posts : 2368
Join date : 2013-05-14

Back to top Go down

Re: Can God use rock music?

Post by Mark Jones on August 12th 2014, 11:06 am

Well said Phillip. Most miss this truth.

Mark Jones
avatar
Mark Jones
Star member
Star member

Posts : 1583
Join date : 2013-05-16
Age : 58
Location : Springfield Missouri

http://readyrangers.tzo.com

Back to top Go down

Re: Can God use rock music?

Post by joecool on August 12th 2014, 7:12 pm

Related to all of this is a new Barna survey coming out and discussed on christiannews.net. Summary:

90% of pastors say that the Bible speaks to today's issues (why isn't it 100%?). But less than 10% actually speak on today's issues from the pulpit. Asked to identify what constitutes a successful church, pastors listed the following...
1) attendance
2) giving
3) number of programs
4) number of staff
5) square footage

Speaking out on today's issues from a biblical perspective will likely make a church smaller. And pastors are hired to make them bigger. So, are the survey's results the fault of the pastor or those who vote him in?

joecool
Star member
Star member

Posts : 1608
Join date : 2013-10-28

Back to top Go down

Re: Can God use rock music?

Post by RRCmdrBennett on August 12th 2014, 8:55 pm

Interesting point on who to blame the elected or the People who voted for them.

When Jesus comes the church will finally ditch its "democratic" government.

_________________
Dan Bennett
Sr Commander (2007-2016)
N Central Area Communications Coord, CI (2016)
RR Outpost #215, Ohio District :flag:
RR GMA #83 Potomac Dist-#2366 Nat'l

"Be Ready, It wasn't raining when Noah built the Ark."

fire FCF Frontiersman 9/91 fire
Free Trapper 2016
Training Seminars/Camps:
LTC LMA 5/94, Ranger Basics 1/05, LTA LMA 5/05, NTC IL 5/09, WCO 10/09, ICS 4/10, RKTC 7/10, Ranger Essentials 8/10, NRMC 10/11,
Outpost Leader Advancement Levels:
LMA-Advanced 10/11, MoE 2012-092

RR v1.99

avatar
RRCmdrBennett
Moderator
Moderator

Posts : 3365
Join date : 2013-05-15
Age : 41
Location : Ohio

Back to top Go down

Re: Can God use rock music?

Post by Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

View previous topic View next topic Back to top


 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum