Search
 
 

Display results as :
 


Rechercher Advanced Search

Keywords

Latest topics
» Culture Rot
by joecool Yesterday at 10:57 am

» July Thread
by joecool July 25th 2017, 11:54 am

» BAC Backpacking Action Camp 38 signed up to go..huh? YUP 38 signed up.
by Mark Jones July 10th 2017, 6:22 pm

» June 2017 Thread
by Claymore July 3rd 2017, 11:17 pm

» Finally Pulled the Trigger
by RRCmdrBennett June 25th 2017, 11:02 pm

» Gold Dust and Feathers
by ccm2361 June 19th 2017, 5:08 pm

» Pow Wow 2017 So. Mo District we had a great Pow Wow.
by Mark Jones June 14th 2017, 9:59 am

» Frontier Adventure 2017 So. MO District
by Mark Jones June 3rd 2017, 8:25 am

» May 2017 Thread
by Phillip Gross June 3rd 2017, 7:50 am

Statistics
We have 82 registered users
The newest registered user is RangerSpitfire

Our users have posted a total of 12849 messages in 686 subjects

Study: Youth groups pushing teens to abandon their faith?

View previous topic View next topic Go down

Study: Youth groups pushing teens to abandon their faith?

Post by RRCmdrBennett on August 2nd 2014, 2:10 pm

http://standupforthetruth.com/2014/07/study-youth-groups-driving-christian-teens-to-abandon-faith/


The following was originally published at Charisma Magazine:

A new study might reveal why a majority of Christian teens abandon their faith upon high school graduation. Some time ago, Christian pollster George Barna documented that 61 percent of today’s 20-somethings who had been churched at one point during their teen years are now spiritually disengaged. They do not attend church, read their Bible or pray.

According to a new five-week, three-question national survey sponsored by the National Center for Family-Integrated Churches (NCFIC), the youth group itself is the problem. Fifty-five percent of American Christians are concerned with modern youth ministry because it’s too shallow and too entertainment-focused, resulting in an inability to train mature believers. But even if church youth groups had the gravitas of Dallas Theological Seminary, 36 percent of today’s believers are convinced youth groups themselves are not even biblical.

After answering three questions at YouthGroupSurvey.com, each survey participant received NCFIC Director Scott Brown’s e-book entitled Weed in the Church: How A Culture of Age Segregation Is Destroying the Younger Generation, Fragmenting the Family and Harming Church as well as access to a 50-minute-long documentary entitled Divided: Is Modern Youth Ministry Multiplying or Dividing the Church? (Divided has been viewed by 200,000 people.)

The survey is still active online through Friday, Nov. 8.

Adam McManus, a spokesman for NCFIC, is not surprised by the church’s deep concerns about youth groups.

“Today’s church has created peer dependency,” McManus says. “The inherent result of youth groups is that teenagers in the church are focused on their peers, not their parents or their pastors. It’s a foreign sociology that leads to immaturity, a greater likelihood of sexual activity, drug experimentation and a rejection of the authority of the Word of God.

“Proverbs 13:20 says, ‘He who walks with wise men will be wise, but the companion of fools will suffer harm.’ The result is that the youth stumble, they can’t see beyond their noses, and spiritual adolescence is prolonged well into adulthood. It’s crippling the body of Christ. That’s why it’s time to return to the biblical paradigm and throw out the youth group structure entirely.”

He continues, “I am greatly encouraged by the results of our survey. American Christians are finally waking up to the disconnect between the clear teaching in Scripture in favor of family-integration and the modern-day church’s obsession with dividing the family at every turn. Age segregation, especially during the tender and impactful teenage years, not only hasn’t worked, it’s been detrimental. Even worse, it is contrary to the Bible. But the good news is that practices in the churches related to youth groups are changing dramatically. Twenty years ago no one was even asking this question.”

McManus cited the following Scriptures to document his contention that it’s God’s will for the church to embrace the biblical model of families staying together in the service as the Word of God is preached: Deuteronomy 16:9-14, Joshua 8:34-35, Ezra 10:1, 2 Chronicles 20:13, Nehemiah 12:43 and Joel 2:15-16.

“Our fervent prayer is that God will raise up Spirit-filled, Bible-preaching, Christ-centered, family-integrated assemblies from the ashes of our man-centered, family-fragmenting churches,” McManus adds. “Plus, the church needs to begin to equip Christian fathers to communicate the gospel to their families. Today, Christian parents are beginning to realize that they have not fulfilled their spiritual duties by simply dropping off their kiddos to Sunday school and youth group, allowing other parents to disciple their children by proxy.

“Let’s not forget the powerful words spoken by Moses in Deuteronomy 6:4-7: ‘Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one. Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength. These commandments that I give you today are to be on your hearts. Impress them on your children. Talk about them when you sit at home and when you walk along the road, when you lie down and when you get up.’

“It is the parents’ primary obligation to disciple their own children, impressing God’s commandments upon them in the home on a daily basis.”

Cameron Cole, youth director at Cathedral Church of the Advent in Birmingham, Ala., says, “There is a propensity in our culture to outsource the development of our children. For intellectual development, we send them to school. For athletic development, we send them to Little League. And for spiritual formation, we send them to youth group. The church has done a poor job of communicating to the parents that they are the primary disciplers of their children. Parents don’t believe this, but the reality is that kids listen to their parents far more than they’re going to listen to a youth minister.”

“It’s time for the Christian father to take the central role which God has ordained,” McManus concludes. “Gathered around the dining room table, the father needs to lead family worship once again, which had been standard behavior for a vibrant American Christian family for hundreds of years, dating back to the Plymouth, Mass., colony of 1620. Dad needs to read from and discuss the Bible, sing Christian songs and pray with his family, his little flock over which God has appointed him shepherd. Frankly, I’m not as concerned about what happens in Sunday school in church as I am with what happens in ‘Monday school’ and ‘Tuesday school’ at home with the family.”


_________________
Dan Bennett
Sr Commander
N Central Area Communications Coord, CI
RR Outpost #215, Ohio District :flag:
RR GMA #83 Potomac Dist-#2366 Nat'l

"Be Ready, It wasn't raining when Noah built the Ark."

fire FCF Frontiersman 9/91, Buckskin ?, Wilderness ? fire
Bourgeois Trapper 5/06, Free Trapper ?
Training Seminars/Camps:
LTC LMA 5/94, Ranger Basics 1/05, LTA LMA 5/05, NTC IL 5/09, WCO 10/09, ICS 4/10, RKTC 7/10, Ranger Essentials 8/10, NRMC 10/11, Training Academy? NEEC? JBIE?
Outpost Leader Advancement Levels:
LMA-Advanced 10/11, MoE 2012-092

RR v1.99

avatar
RRCmdrBennett
Moderator
Moderator

Posts : 3235
Join date : 2013-05-15
Age : 41
Location : Ohio

Back to top Go down

Re: Study: Youth groups pushing teens to abandon their faith?

Post by Phillip Gross on August 2nd 2014, 10:29 pm

My wife and I had a little discussion about this and wondered if it is because parents, leaders, etc send their kids to youth group thinking that it's "good enough", or "all they need". I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with a youth group per sé, as long as that's not the only thing they've got going. And even then, it depends on whether the group is inwardly or outwardly focused. Is it a "me" focus? What can you (youth pastor) do so I have a fun time, or is it a "them" focus? What can we do to reach the world for Jesus?

There have been youth groups of sorts for years. My parents got saved and were apart of a "youth group" in the early 70's Jesus movement. They were basically a group of ex-hippies who now loved Jesus and went out to the world to tell everyone about Him. My aunt had a knife pulled on her in Philly by a black panther who asked if she willing to die for Jesus while they were witnessing on the streets. She calmly said that she was because she knew where she'd go when she died, then asked if he did.

The problem as I see it is one of focus. We have a selfish generation(s) on our hands. And unfortunately at a lot of churches, that selfishness is being fed. When we water down God's Word, we get watered down believers.
avatar
Phillip Gross
VIP Member
VIP Member

Posts : 2261
Join date : 2013-05-14

Back to top Go down

Re: Study: Youth groups pushing teens to abandon their faith?

Post by strods on August 2nd 2014, 10:57 pm

I'm going nod that there are some accuracies in this article that people should be aware of, but also say that there are also some good groups out there, even if I don't personally know them. Prior to Rangers I was a Youth Drama Coach and was there during Wed "services". I say the term loosely because it was a small concert, rock music, etc. Granted I actually liked the music but I found the follow up sermon always lack luster. I have tried to be kind and simply blamed it on the pastor and I having different approaches. I'm more interactive, he preached AT the youth. He would pull a single verse to stand on. I prefer maintain clear context of scripture so prefer several verses to maintain that. But eventually he became one of many pastors I outlasted and the youth group died out there shortly there after.
This year Rangers are up to 3 ER's and 5 AR's 2 DR's and I have no idea RK's. (too many, too fast) Very Happy 

_________________
"Pick battles big enough to matter, but small enough to win."
Cmdr. Tom Strodthoff
#35 - Dsm IA
avatar
strods
Senior Member
Senior Member

Posts : 392
Join date : 2013-05-23

Back to top Go down

Re: Study: Youth groups pushing teens to abandon their faith?

Post by Claymore on August 3rd 2014, 3:02 am

It looks like this article is a simplistic answer to a complex question.

There has never been more competition for kids' attention than today. We can rattle off the video games, web-sites and such, but I can think of three electronic distractions that I have seen young people playing with during the Sermon at church service. Now does that really look like someone who is going to Hold-Fast to the Faith during his/her 20's?

I went to Parochial School in the First through Eighth Grades, then in High School, I attended Church on Sundays. When I graduated from High School and was in the Army, I only attended Church on Christmas and Easter.....except in Viet Nam. When we were preparing to fly out to the jungle on an extended mission, and word came that the Chaplain was on the Firebase, I was right there for a last word with God prior to getting on the helicopter.

Then when I got out of Combat, guess what? Back to the same infrequent attendance as before....until I had my first son.

We went back to Church, because I wanted him to have the moral influence of Christian Teachings. And guess what? It rubbed off on me.

I was neither a deep-end Christian nor a deep-end secularist. I believe that I was pretty average, plus-or-minus a few points.

My parents were partying teens in the 1940's. Then when they got married and had kids, they settled down and got serious about the Christian Education of their offspring.

Young people are being pulled in a lot of directions that did not exist 50 or 100 years ago. Additionally, holding to Christian Ideals used to be a measure of a person's morality. Now it is a sign that that person is naive. It is much more trendy to be a secularist, or agnostic, or tree-hugger.

I think that blaming it on Youth Group is an easy excuse for poor pastors who are unable to connect and keep the kids in their congregations.

_________________
"Rangers Lead the Way"

18Z,        11B4X

"The last thing that I want to do is to hurt you,...................... but it's still on the list."
avatar
Claymore
VIP Member
VIP Member

Posts : 2045
Join date : 2013-05-17
Location : Northern Mississippi

Back to top Go down

Re: Study: Youth groups pushing teens to abandon their faith?

Post by Phillip Gross on August 3rd 2014, 6:10 am

Great post Claymore! I think there are many people who take the path of the prodigal son. However, to follow up on that last paragraph, I think that's why it's so important that we pray for another mighty outpouring of God's Spirit.

I think too many people, me included unfortunately, have gotten into the "business" of the faith instead of passionately pursuing a relationship with Father. I've heard it asked, "Are you seeking God's hand, or God's face?". It's as if so many churches are looking to programs and formulas to help change people instead of a touch from the Creator!

It's so easy to fall into that trap of thinking WE need to do something in our strength to help others. The only thing WE need to do is to passionately pursue the Father and let His Spirit flow through us to others. This is something that God is dealing heavily with me on. Get back to chasing Him first and foremost. I want to be so close to Him that I can be found as a useful vessel. Let God increase that I may decrease!
avatar
Phillip Gross
VIP Member
VIP Member

Posts : 2261
Join date : 2013-05-14

Back to top Go down

Re: Study: Youth groups pushing teens to abandon their faith?

Post by Mark Jones on August 3rd 2014, 8:06 am

In 2000 ,14 years ago they had these stats that showed if we didn't reach the kids before the age of 12 the odds were we would not reach them.

I don't think we can blame the youth group totally as the stats showed if we didn't reach them before 12 the age they went into youth that they were lost.

Now. My Son in Law and Daughter were both youth pastors for 3 years. After getting beat up by Sr. Pastors they are no longer involved in the AG youth program. The kids they mentored to are still calling them even from 12 hours away. They have the heart for the teens but no heart for the abuse of the church....sadly said.

Having kids hanging out, socializing fools leading the fools is a very bad plan. I personally think the church would be better served with the teens helping and attending main church with their parents.

I don't think one youth pastor is enough to mentor a group of 65 kids as they listen to head banging "Christianized words" with a devil spirt beat.

I like Rangers. It has the older boys mentoring the younger boys with a Commander there in the middle of it all keeping standards up to par.

If we look back at what worked... and went and pulled that up to today...it's very possible it will work again. The youth group hang doesn't work very well.

Mark Jones
p.s. The Bible has a promise. If we raise up a child in the way it should go..when they are old they will not depart from it. God knows that teen years are trails...even the best of us can go awry.

avatar
Mark Jones
Special Member
Special Member

Posts : 1514
Join date : 2013-05-16
Age : 58
Location : Springfield Missouri

http://readyrangers.tzo.com

Back to top Go down

Re: Study: Youth groups pushing teens to abandon their faith?

Post by RRCmdrBennett on August 3rd 2014, 10:13 pm

I agree its not just a Yuth program thing its a core family issue. Fathers who are in the home letting churches fill their role as primary teacher of God's word is the big issue. I have never got that idea of a 20 something pastor who is barely out of seminary and his teen years should mentor them. The biblical way is for experienced mature men and women to mentor or teach the younger. Our ministries are to supplement or support act as "helps" that are mentioned in the bible not the sole source of Spiritual instruction.

_________________
Dan Bennett
Sr Commander
N Central Area Communications Coord, CI
RR Outpost #215, Ohio District :flag:
RR GMA #83 Potomac Dist-#2366 Nat'l

"Be Ready, It wasn't raining when Noah built the Ark."

fire FCF Frontiersman 9/91, Buckskin ?, Wilderness ? fire
Bourgeois Trapper 5/06, Free Trapper ?
Training Seminars/Camps:
LTC LMA 5/94, Ranger Basics 1/05, LTA LMA 5/05, NTC IL 5/09, WCO 10/09, ICS 4/10, RKTC 7/10, Ranger Essentials 8/10, NRMC 10/11, Training Academy? NEEC? JBIE?
Outpost Leader Advancement Levels:
LMA-Advanced 10/11, MoE 2012-092

RR v1.99

avatar
RRCmdrBennett
Moderator
Moderator

Posts : 3235
Join date : 2013-05-15
Age : 41
Location : Ohio

Back to top Go down

Re: Study: Youth groups pushing teens to abandon their faith?

Post by Claymore on August 4th 2014, 3:34 am

Dan just hit on a BIG point that WE are not going to change.  Why is a Youth Pastor with 20 years in the Field considered a Loser, because he is not a Senior Pastor, yet?  Is the Salvation and Spiritual Stability of a 15-year-old worth less than the Salvation and Spiritual Stability of a 30-year-old?

Nobody ever said (to my face), "Oh.  You're a Loser, because you were only a Master Sergeant, instead of a Colonel".  There is a job for Colonels, and there is a job for Master Sergeants.  While they may overlap at times, they are not interchangeable.

One of the worst Senior Pastors that I saw had been a Youth Pastor, who had a reputation as being one of the best in the Tri-State Region.  However, this was his first assignment as Senior Pastor, and he took a stable church with a Sunday Attendance of about 350, ripped the pews out, blacked out the windows, turned it into a Theater-in-the-Round, and turned the Vestibule into a Coffee Bistro.  He then replaced the Contemporary Praise Team with a Christian Rock Group playing "Performance" Music that the Congregation could not sing to.

So the Adults left, and the Church went from taking offerings of $350,000.00 to a Half-Million per year to struggling.

And then, two years later, he left; giving the mess to someone else to clean up (with a loss of about $75,000.00 worth of furniture and furnishings; how many hungry kids in South America would that have helped?).

My Point:  Senior Pastors and Youth Pastors have their own special places, and are not necessarily interchangeable.

A good Colonel recognizes his Sergeants Major and Master Sergeants as indispensable assets to complete the Unit Mission, and a good Senior Pastor should recognize Proficient Youth Leaders as being the same.

_________________
"Rangers Lead the Way"

18Z,        11B4X

"The last thing that I want to do is to hurt you,...................... but it's still on the list."
avatar
Claymore
VIP Member
VIP Member

Posts : 2045
Join date : 2013-05-17
Location : Northern Mississippi

Back to top Go down

Re: Study: Youth groups pushing teens to abandon their faith?

Post by strods on August 4th 2014, 9:37 pm

good points all. I keep drawing comparisons between adult, youth, and Children's church. To most audiences, there is no question that the Senior Pastor is, of course a pastor. And most will nod that the Youth Pastor is as well, though generally regarded as greener.
How often have we been regarded as baby sitters? Why? Because my teaching experience isn't from a bible college?

_________________
"Pick battles big enough to matter, but small enough to win."
Cmdr. Tom Strodthoff
#35 - Dsm IA
avatar
strods
Senior Member
Senior Member

Posts : 392
Join date : 2013-05-23

Back to top Go down

Re: Study: Youth groups pushing teens to abandon their faith?

Post by Claymore on August 4th 2014, 9:45 pm

strods wrote: 
How often have we been regarded as baby sitters?  Why?  Because my teaching experience isn't from a bible college?  


Right. And we have had such good luck recently with Leaders who are Accredited Ministers.

_________________
"Rangers Lead the Way"

18Z,        11B4X

"The last thing that I want to do is to hurt you,...................... but it's still on the list."
avatar
Claymore
VIP Member
VIP Member

Posts : 2045
Join date : 2013-05-17
Location : Northern Mississippi

Back to top Go down

Re: Study: Youth groups pushing teens to abandon their faith?

Post by RRCmdrBennett on August 4th 2014, 11:58 pm

I think the idea is once you hit 30s-40s you can't relate to kids anymore cause you don't speak their lingo, don't wear gauged earrings and you listen to southern gospel.

Claymore, what you're describing is what the bible calls the body of Christ. We can't all be eyes and we can't all be Colonels. I think its also a $ issue not all Yuth pastors make a lot of $. Moving up means more pay.

_________________
Dan Bennett
Sr Commander
N Central Area Communications Coord, CI
RR Outpost #215, Ohio District :flag:
RR GMA #83 Potomac Dist-#2366 Nat'l

"Be Ready, It wasn't raining when Noah built the Ark."

fire FCF Frontiersman 9/91, Buckskin ?, Wilderness ? fire
Bourgeois Trapper 5/06, Free Trapper ?
Training Seminars/Camps:
LTC LMA 5/94, Ranger Basics 1/05, LTA LMA 5/05, NTC IL 5/09, WCO 10/09, ICS 4/10, RKTC 7/10, Ranger Essentials 8/10, NRMC 10/11, Training Academy? NEEC? JBIE?
Outpost Leader Advancement Levels:
LMA-Advanced 10/11, MoE 2012-092

RR v1.99

avatar
RRCmdrBennett
Moderator
Moderator

Posts : 3235
Join date : 2013-05-15
Age : 41
Location : Ohio

Back to top Go down

Re: Study: Youth groups pushing teens to abandon their faith?

Post by joecool on August 11th 2014, 9:50 pm

While on my Seattle trip, I took the opportunity to ask my friends and their teen kids about youth groups. The parents were uniform in their criticism of what they perceive to be "lightweight" youth groups. The teens were just as convinced that their pastors were doing a fantastic job of preparing them for life.

Personally, I only attended a few youth meetings back in the day. Wasn't a Christian then, but I sensed a seriousness in their Bible study. No distractions from games, music and the like. They weren't there to be entertained. Nowadays? No entertainment, no crowd. Same thing in the classroom. Kids zone out if you don't measure up to MTV or ESPN.

joecool
Posting Star
Posting Star

Posts : 1488
Join date : 2013-10-28

Back to top Go down

Re: Study: Youth groups pushing teens to abandon their faith?

Post by RRCmdrBennett on August 12th 2014, 9:13 pm

Agreed. When they transition from entertainment to sitting in regular church at 18 or 21 they get bored. They're used to their old church. Its like being forced to leave a church and go to another one.

_________________
Dan Bennett
Sr Commander
N Central Area Communications Coord, CI
RR Outpost #215, Ohio District :flag:
RR GMA #83 Potomac Dist-#2366 Nat'l

"Be Ready, It wasn't raining when Noah built the Ark."

fire FCF Frontiersman 9/91, Buckskin ?, Wilderness ? fire
Bourgeois Trapper 5/06, Free Trapper ?
Training Seminars/Camps:
LTC LMA 5/94, Ranger Basics 1/05, LTA LMA 5/05, NTC IL 5/09, WCO 10/09, ICS 4/10, RKTC 7/10, Ranger Essentials 8/10, NRMC 10/11, Training Academy? NEEC? JBIE?
Outpost Leader Advancement Levels:
LMA-Advanced 10/11, MoE 2012-092

RR v1.99

avatar
RRCmdrBennett
Moderator
Moderator

Posts : 3235
Join date : 2013-05-15
Age : 41
Location : Ohio

Back to top Go down

Re: Study: Youth groups pushing teens to abandon their faith?

Post by Mark Jones on August 13th 2014, 12:02 pm

I think folk will always stop at whats expected from them it seems to be in our nature to do so. No more no less. So if we don't expect them to do much else than play games or sit around they will live up to our expectations.

When I do a campout. It's bring your own cook your own or go hungry. Expectations are lived up to by themselves. They face the test in the field of how good a job THEY did in it.

Take a bunch of youth and pile them into a room with only their peers... I think you set them up for failure. They would be better served in that case to spend the time with their families in service hearing Gods word being preached. What we are doing right now with our youth..is failing badly. Best go back to a time proven system that works and the facts showed it to work.

We seem to think that duty, regiment won't make a child grow... I got news for you. It is a foundation of growth. Parents just need to step up and take their kids back from the devils pomp and circumstance that he has going on inside the walls of the church.

Not every thing we give to our children or youth to do has to meet their approval...in fact if we did it all that way..our children and youth would be very sick and very weird.

Mark Jones
avatar
Mark Jones
Special Member
Special Member

Posts : 1514
Join date : 2013-05-16
Age : 58
Location : Springfield Missouri

http://readyrangers.tzo.com

Back to top Go down

Re: Study: Youth groups pushing teens to abandon their faith?

Post by joecool on August 13th 2014, 12:50 pm

For the last two years, our pastoral staff has known that I'm being called to shift my ministry more to jr/sr high schoolers. To provide them with apologetics training that will put some steel in their spine. Scripture tells us to always be ready to give an answer. Unfortunately, studies show that the majority of youth aren't prepared, and roll over when confronted with tough questions from atheists. Worse, they walk away from their weak faith.

Yet I still haven't been plugged into youth. The pastors have occasionally mentioned my "shift", but I feel it's been used more as an excuse to mollify me into accepting all the children's ministries changes.

joecool
Posting Star
Posting Star

Posts : 1488
Join date : 2013-10-28

Back to top Go down

Re: Study: Youth groups pushing teens to abandon their faith?

Post by Phillip Gross on August 13th 2014, 1:18 pm

I don't know if the current popular program is so terrible IF they are getting proper Biblical training in other areas. IF the parents are teaching AND living it at home. IF they're involved (actively paying attention) in church. IF they're involved in something like RR that has training. THEN having a time to hang out with other young people in a lighthearted, fun atmosphere is actually a good thing. Everyone likes to cut up and have fun with their peers. I think there should be a time and place for everything that's not violating God's word.

The problem comes in when the youth ISN'T being taught at home, ISN'T paying attention in church and ISN'T involved in any other discipleship training. The problem is when youth group (or some other single activity) is looked at as the be all, end all of the youth's spiritual growth. There should be a well rounded list of activities for young people.

A lot can be learned during play. How to treat people. What to do when someone mistreats you and so forth. Put another way, it would be like an athelete saying that playing in the backyard is going to prepare him for the game. Playing in the backyard is great, and will add to his activities, but it's not going to prepare him like hitting the heavy weights I'm the gym, or two a day practices will.

Playing in the backyard is definitely better than eating icecream at the drugstore. The backyard is youth group. It's better than feeding on the unhealthy things that the world has that entices us, but there needs to be times of hard work outs and practices. That's where the parents are vital!

What about the kids with unsaved parents? They exist in staggering numbers. Those are the fat kids sitting around eating junkfood all day. Inviting them to the backyard should be a way to help the become aware of their unhealthiness when they begin to play with the others. Then they should be guided to ever increasing levels of spiritual training. This does happen many times. And that's a great part of youth programs. The kids who don't have godly parents, but I think the issue of this discussion is primarily pointing at youth growing up in church that fall away.

I think that failure falls squarely on the shoulders of the parents who should've taken a more active role in training and guiding. The youth group is just one little tool to provide a fun place for kids to hang out in a "Christian" environment. Trying to use that one "tool" to build the whole house will lead to failure.

So that's my take. It ain't the youth group per sé.
avatar
Phillip Gross
VIP Member
VIP Member

Posts : 2261
Join date : 2013-05-14

Back to top Go down

Re: Study: Youth groups pushing teens to abandon their faith?

Post by joecool on August 13th 2014, 8:28 pm

There's no doubt that many parents have failed when it comes to teaching their children in the way to go. Our culture has made everyone too busy, and those with personal responsibilities are too often too happy to "delegate" them to others. I look at the whole education monolith and have seen the same thing over the past 30 years. Parents got too busy, or weren't even around, and the schools were only too happy to take everything over. "Educators" end up being the default parents, and instill their own values into the kids.

On my recent Seattle trip I spent time with a long-time friend. He retired from civil service a decade ago and was looking for something to kill the time while his wife was still working. He ended up in the public school system, walking from class to class with 3 at-risk students every day. He actually takes notes and compares them with those of the students, to make sure they're properly preparing for tests. Besides a nice paycheck for 10 years, he's qualified himself for another pension, as well as social security (which he had opted out of in his civil career). To summarize, he's been like a Dad making sure the kids are doing their homework. The local taxpayers paid for it.

Again, who failed? The parent? The kids? The community? The culture? More than likely, all of the above. And we're no closer to fixing the root problems. "Hurting? Here, take some aspirin for the pain. We'll make an appointment to make an appointment some other time."

joecool
Posting Star
Posting Star

Posts : 1488
Join date : 2013-10-28

Back to top Go down

Re: Study: Youth groups pushing teens to abandon their faith?

Post by Claymore on August 13th 2014, 11:35 pm

We have to work with what we were given.

Things aren't what they were 100 years ago, or 50 years ago, or even 25............and they aren't coming back.

God knows what our intentions are, and he knows how much effort you put into your ministries (including home, family, work, and public witness).

Just don't be like our Commander in Chief, and claim that all of your problems are someone else's fault.

How would you like to have been an Apostle, 2000 years ago? All they had to work with were Bull-Headed Legalistic Jews and a bunch of Idol-Worshipers.

_________________
"Rangers Lead the Way"

18Z,        11B4X

"The last thing that I want to do is to hurt you,...................... but it's still on the list."
avatar
Claymore
VIP Member
VIP Member

Posts : 2045
Join date : 2013-05-17
Location : Northern Mississippi

Back to top Go down

Re: Study: Youth groups pushing teens to abandon their faith?

Post by joecool on August 13th 2014, 11:53 pm

Claymore wrote: How would you like to have been an Apostle, 2000 years ago?  All they had to work with were Bull-Headed Legalistic Jews and a bunch of Idol-Worshipers.

Unfortunately, today's not much different. How many self-perceived Christians are actually following Christ? Feels like we're fighting them in much the same way. Idol worshipers? We've got so many idols, we're starting to worship ourselves.

joecool
Posting Star
Posting Star

Posts : 1488
Join date : 2013-10-28

Back to top Go down

Re: Study: Youth groups pushing teens to abandon their faith?

Post by RRCmdrBennett on August 14th 2014, 2:33 am

I believe Youth needs to be more integrated into the regular church. Less focus on the youth pastor. A connection to the men and women of the congregation.

_________________
Dan Bennett
Sr Commander
N Central Area Communications Coord, CI
RR Outpost #215, Ohio District :flag:
RR GMA #83 Potomac Dist-#2366 Nat'l

"Be Ready, It wasn't raining when Noah built the Ark."

fire FCF Frontiersman 9/91, Buckskin ?, Wilderness ? fire
Bourgeois Trapper 5/06, Free Trapper ?
Training Seminars/Camps:
LTC LMA 5/94, Ranger Basics 1/05, LTA LMA 5/05, NTC IL 5/09, WCO 10/09, ICS 4/10, RKTC 7/10, Ranger Essentials 8/10, NRMC 10/11, Training Academy? NEEC? JBIE?
Outpost Leader Advancement Levels:
LMA-Advanced 10/11, MoE 2012-092

RR v1.99

avatar
RRCmdrBennett
Moderator
Moderator

Posts : 3235
Join date : 2013-05-15
Age : 41
Location : Ohio

Back to top Go down

Re: Study: Youth groups pushing teens to abandon their faith?

Post by Phillip Gross on August 14th 2014, 5:46 am

RRCmdrBennett wrote:I believe Youth needs to be more integrated into the regular church. Less focus on the youth pastor. A connection to the men and women of the congregation.
I agree with this in some part. We have elevated (in many instances) the youth pastor because he's taking care of the dirty job of dealing with rebellious teens off everyone's hands... But it can't be a blanket statement because not all churches operate the same. I don't like "always" and "never" unless it's truly applicable.

Once again, my perspective is a little different because of my experience with the youth church I was in. In fact, I was just coming in when the youth pastor changed it from that of a youth group (inward focused) to a youth church (outward focused). I remember vividly when God had dealt with him about that direction and him saying that we weren't here to be entertained, but we were here to meet with God. It wasn't supposed to be about playing "chubby bunnies" and hooking up with someone else. I remember when we'd have wolves come in (male and female) to scope out the goods. He'd regularly say this wasn't a meat market and he wasn't going to put up with ungodly advances. He exhorted us to treat each other as brothers and sisters instead of prospects. He didn't ban couples from coming, or from talking to each other, but you had better treat each other in a godly way and there was a no PDA policy that was strictly enforced.

We had kids getting saved, baptized in the Holy Spirit, and set free from sin. We also did work with others. We did inner city ministry. We worked hand in hand with the "regular" church in certain ministry areas. It was a totally different ministry than the typical youth program that many are today. In fact there were several adults who lobed coming to the services on Sunday evenings. It essentially became the more contemporary service at the church, but not an exclusive "kids only" group. BUT, that's because he believed in generational transfer and preached it.

I guess that's why I have a different view. It wasn't a namby pamby game time. I remember him saying if all you want to do is play games and hook up then there were plenty of other places to go, but we were going expand the kingdom. That may be the biggest key there, that he taught kingdom principles. An inward focused group isn't kingdom focused.

I know that a lot of youth groups are just playing games, and as I said, isn't the end of the youth's spiritual walk IF the parent is active. But yes, because so many parents AREN'T involved, we do need to pray that God would move on the hearts of churches and pastors to kick it up a notch and quit pandering to a "me" generation.

Good discussion guys!
avatar
Phillip Gross
VIP Member
VIP Member

Posts : 2261
Join date : 2013-05-14

Back to top Go down

Re: Study: Youth groups pushing teens to abandon their faith?

Post by joecool on August 14th 2014, 9:41 pm

Phillip Gross wrote: Once again, my perspective is a little different because of my experience with the youth church I was in. In fact, I was just coming in when the youth pastor changed it from that of a youth group (inward focused) to a youth church (outward focused).

Your church was blessed to have this guy, Phillip. His leading and mentoring obviously had a lasting effect on your personal ministries. I'm curious. Have you kept in touch with others from your youth church? Does a sizeable percentage have your commitment?

joecool
Posting Star
Posting Star

Posts : 1488
Join date : 2013-10-28

Back to top Go down

Re: Study: Youth groups pushing teens to abandon their faith?

Post by RRCmdrBennett on August 14th 2014, 10:40 pm

I feel your youth church was an exception. Our youth pastor has taken our kids out on nursing home ministry outings and such. He also runs an after school bible study in the local HS which desparately needs it. We are definitely outward focused as well.

_________________
Dan Bennett
Sr Commander
N Central Area Communications Coord, CI
RR Outpost #215, Ohio District :flag:
RR GMA #83 Potomac Dist-#2366 Nat'l

"Be Ready, It wasn't raining when Noah built the Ark."

fire FCF Frontiersman 9/91, Buckskin ?, Wilderness ? fire
Bourgeois Trapper 5/06, Free Trapper ?
Training Seminars/Camps:
LTC LMA 5/94, Ranger Basics 1/05, LTA LMA 5/05, NTC IL 5/09, WCO 10/09, ICS 4/10, RKTC 7/10, Ranger Essentials 8/10, NRMC 10/11, Training Academy? NEEC? JBIE?
Outpost Leader Advancement Levels:
LMA-Advanced 10/11, MoE 2012-092

RR v1.99

avatar
RRCmdrBennett
Moderator
Moderator

Posts : 3235
Join date : 2013-05-15
Age : 41
Location : Ohio

Back to top Go down

Re: Study: Youth groups pushing teens to abandon their faith?

Post by Phillip Gross on August 14th 2014, 11:11 pm

joecool wrote:

Your church was blessed to have this guy, Phillip. His leading and mentoring obviously had a lasting effect on your personal ministries. I'm curious. Have you kept in touch with others from your youth church? Does a sizeable percentage have your commitment?
Most of our lives have taken us different ways (geographically) so I only talk to a couple of them here and there. There are several out of the core group from when I was there that are still serving the Lord. A few are in full time ministry. Others minister in the market place. There are a few that fell away. Some went on to Bible college before falling away. Looking back at who was there in that time period, I'd have to say that more are still in the faith than out now.

avatar
Phillip Gross
VIP Member
VIP Member

Posts : 2261
Join date : 2013-05-14

Back to top Go down

Re: Study: Youth groups pushing teens to abandon their faith?

Post by joecool on August 14th 2014, 11:16 pm

This youth pastor from your past sounds like he deserves an "out of the blue" thank you card. Earlier this year, I wrote a letter to the pastor who married my wife and I. He planted a lot of seeds in my youthful years. Just wanted to bless his day.

joecool
Posting Star
Posting Star

Posts : 1488
Join date : 2013-10-28

Back to top Go down

Re: Study: Youth groups pushing teens to abandon their faith?

Post by Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

View previous topic View next topic Back to top


 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum