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Ruger 10/22 or Henry US Survival AR-7?

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Ruger 10/22 or Henry US Survival AR-7?

Post by RRCmdrBennett on January 26th 2014, 12:34 am

I posted an earlier topic debating between a 10/22 rifle or a .22 pistol.  I would still like a pistol in the future for training but have decided on a rifle for now.  I just ordered the Henry repeating arms catalog because I love lever actions.  It also includes pump rifles, bolts, and semi autos.  I noticed the last gun is a Henry US Survival AR-7 in .22LR.  I love how it takes down like a 10/22 takendown but in this setup the action, barrel, and two mags all fit inside a water resistant stock.  That's even better IMO for a survival rifle or hunting rifle that can makes full use of a small space.  MSRP is $290-$350 which is right around same range as a Ruger 10/22.

Info on the AR-7
http://henryrepeating.com/rifle-survival-ar7.cfm

Picture of the rifles
http://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&docid=_eboXmbfKlRYMM&tbnid=urj99zkdPz1AbM:&ved=0CAUQjRw&url=http%3A%2F%2Fsuburbansurvivalblog.com%2Freviews-of-the-henry-survival-rifle-ar-7&ei=e5jkUoihDseJrAGP3ICIAQ&bvm=bv.59930103,d.aWc&psig=AFQjCNFGdeHew-B1D7S15k25lyI4oLPDCg&ust=1390799347974634

Image of the rifle disassembled and stowed away inside the stock
http://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&docid=Au6UprqAbbZAfM&tbnid=EXO-IwyzqWQLhM:&ved=0CAUQjRw&url=http%3A%2F%2Fhenryrepeating.com%2Frifle-survival-ar7.cfm&ei=iJjkUrevJsT1qwHqwoDoDw&bvm=bv.59930103,d.aWc&psig=AFQjCNGV6A03A0Y4iYTuLLo1FO-g9NhUEQ&ust=1390799351017384

Anyone has any thoughts, opinions, or experiences with an AR-7 let me know.

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Re: Ruger 10/22 or Henry US Survival AR-7?

Post by Phillip Gross on January 27th 2014, 7:13 pm

I haven't shot either one. I have a standard 10/22 and know they start out as decent guns and can be turned into tack drivers with some (a lot of) money spent on aftermarket parts. 

I don't know much about the take down, but would imagine that it's in the same category as the standard model. 

I've seen and held an AR-7, but never shot one. I think it comes down to what you're looking for. If you want a fairly accurate fairly emergency type rifle then go with the Ruger. If you want a straight up emergency survival gun then go with the Henry. I don't know about it's accuracy at all, but I feel like it'll go anywhere you need it to. Compact, lightweight, and water proof.
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Re: Ruger 10/22 or Henry US Survival AR-7?

Post by Claymore on January 27th 2014, 7:18 pm

Been there, done that.

Had one in the past & shot it, and currently own one.

It is not as rugged or reliable as a 10-22.

The key here is magazine lips.  The lips on an AR-7 are bent sheet metal.  The lips on a good 10-22 magazine are machined stainless steel.

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Re: Ruger 10/22 or Henry US Survival AR-7?

Post by RRCmdrBennett on January 27th 2014, 8:48 pm

Philip, can you explain more about the 10/22 becoming a tack driver?  I hear a lot of good about the 10/22. The only good points on it being takedown is easy to clean in two separate pieces much same way you can detach your upper from lower on an AR-15. You can store it in a small bag. 

I like the mags better too. You can get 25 round banana mags. Sights look better. Lots of add-ons as well.

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Dan Bennett
Sr Commander
N Central Area Communications Coord, CI
RR Outpost #215, Ohio District :flag:
RR GMA #83 Potomac Dist-#2366 Nat'l

"Be Ready, It wasn't raining when Noah built the Ark."

fire FCF Frontiersman 9/91, Buckskin ?, Wilderness ? fire
Bourgeois Trapper 5/06, Free Trapper ?
Training Seminars/Camps:
LTC LMA 5/94, Ranger Basics 1/05, LTA LMA 5/05, NTC IL 5/09, WCO 10/09, ICS 4/10, RKTC 7/10, Ranger Essentials 8/10, NRMC 10/11, Training Academy? NEEC? JBIE?
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Re: Ruger 10/22 or Henry US Survival AR-7?

Post by Phillip Gross on January 28th 2014, 4:20 am

There are several aftermarket options, but I hear a lot of good things about Tony Kidd's stuff. 

http://www.coolguyguns.com

The two things that make a gun accurate are (from what I understand) the barrel and the trigger assembly. Tue barrel is an obvious issue. The better the machining, the better the projectile flight.

The trigger goes into a whole new group of issues. The biggest thing that I understand is the difference between single and two stage triggers. KIDD makes I nice two stage trigger (and awesome barrels) so you know when you're about to release the pin. Then you can "squeeze" it when you decide you want to according to your heart rate, breathing, wind, etc.

My disclaimer. I'm more of a researcher in this topic than someone with a lot of experience.
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Re: Ruger 10/22 or Henry US Survival AR-7?

Post by Claymore on January 28th 2014, 12:22 pm

You're pretty-much on, Phillip.

So it stands to reason that you should be able to put the Trigger Upgrades in the "Takedown" version of the 10-22.

Obviously, since the "Takedown" uses a different barrel, you will not be able to use existing barrel upgrades on the new rifle.

Will there be barrels on the way that will significantly improve the "Takedown"? Unknown. Since it is a completely new system, we do not know what (if any) upgrades would work.

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Re: Ruger 10/22 or Henry US Survival AR-7?

Post by RRCmdrBennett on January 28th 2014, 1:36 pm

I'll go with the standard 10/22 then. 

Why do the trigger and barrel need upgrading?  Is 10/22 not a good accurate rifle?  Are Marlins better?  I've seen Ruger has a lot of after market products for the 10/22.

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Dan Bennett
Sr Commander
N Central Area Communications Coord, CI
RR Outpost #215, Ohio District :flag:
RR GMA #83 Potomac Dist-#2366 Nat'l

"Be Ready, It wasn't raining when Noah built the Ark."

fire FCF Frontiersman 9/91, Buckskin ?, Wilderness ? fire
Bourgeois Trapper 5/06, Free Trapper ?
Training Seminars/Camps:
LTC LMA 5/94, Ranger Basics 1/05, LTA LMA 5/05, NTC IL 5/09, WCO 10/09, ICS 4/10, RKTC 7/10, Ranger Essentials 8/10, NRMC 10/11, Training Academy? NEEC? JBIE?
Outpost Leader Advancement Levels:
LMA-Advanced 10/11, MoE 2012-092

RR v1.99

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Re: Ruger 10/22 or Henry US Survival AR-7?

Post by Claymore on January 28th 2014, 2:16 pm

RRCmdrBennett wrote:

Why do the trigger and barrel need upgrading? Is 10/22 not a good accurate rifle?

They don't "Need" upgrading, but they can be made better.

Three primary reasons for this:

#1. "Production" guns are made to be something that 'most-everyone will like: they are a compromise.

If you are shooting 3-inch clay targets on a fixed range at 50 or 75 yards, you may want a heavy bull barrel, but if you are going to lug it through the woods for 2 or 3 hours for a squirrel or bunny, you may not want to heft the extra weight.

#2. "Production" guns are made to be priced to sell. A custom heavy barrel for a 10-22 may cost $200.00. A custom trigger kit may cost $75.00. So now your $285.00 10-22 is costing $560.00. Most casual sportsmen are not willing to shell that kind of cash out for a .22.

#3. Liability. Rugers are not known for light match triggers, because they are designed to not have light match triggers. If someone hurts himself/others with a gun that goes off, because it was dropped & had a light trigger, the first thing that an attorney will do is to go after the manufacturer.

One of our police reservists had a10-22 fire "Out-of-Battery". The brass shrapnel blew out the ejection port and magazine well, & sent him to the emergency room with brass in his hand.

He contacted an attorney, and they had me do an evaluation of the gun.

I ran a number of rounds of ammunition through it, and was able to re-create the malfunction. It happened when you shot extra-powerful high velocity ammunition through the rifle. Standard ammunition failed to make the malfunction.

Disassembly and inspection of the rifle showed excessive wear to the contact surface on the hammer & disconnector. He had purchased the gun used, and had no idea how much it had been shot, but it looked like many-many thousands of rounds had gone through it.

There was also a waxy substance on the trigger, disconnector, and hammer surfaces (possibly residue from WD-40 or similar lubricant).

So:

It appears that the combination of excessively worn trigger parts, with some lubricant build-up, and the increased recoil/energy of hot ammunition was enough to let the hammer jar off from the disconnector when the bolt slapped the back of the receiver, so the hammer let go and struck the firing pin, while the bolt was still partially open.

I could not tell if the trigger assembly parts were new or after-market.

If you put in after-market parts and have a malfunction, Ruger can claim immunity from any lawsuits.

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Re: Ruger 10/22 or Henry US Survival AR-7?

Post by RRCmdrBennett on January 28th 2014, 2:39 pm

I can upgrade the barrel and trigger assembly from Ruger directly?  To keep it covered would they want it shipped back to do the upgrades themselves?

_________________
Dan Bennett
Sr Commander
N Central Area Communications Coord, CI
RR Outpost #215, Ohio District :flag:
RR GMA #83 Potomac Dist-#2366 Nat'l

"Be Ready, It wasn't raining when Noah built the Ark."

fire FCF Frontiersman 9/91, Buckskin ?, Wilderness ? fire
Bourgeois Trapper 5/06, Free Trapper ?
Training Seminars/Camps:
LTC LMA 5/94, Ranger Basics 1/05, LTA LMA 5/05, NTC IL 5/09, WCO 10/09, ICS 4/10, RKTC 7/10, Ranger Essentials 8/10, NRMC 10/11, Training Academy? NEEC? JBIE?
Outpost Leader Advancement Levels:
LMA-Advanced 10/11, MoE 2012-092

RR v1.99

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Re: Ruger 10/22 or Henry US Survival AR-7?

Post by RRCmdrBennett on January 28th 2014, 2:41 pm

Still deciding on semi or bolt. I have the AR-15 of course is semi. I'm thinking if I miss a squirel or rabbit they will probably run quick before I can re-sight it with a semi .22 LR. Otherwise the .22 will be gun for plinking at the range.

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Dan Bennett
Sr Commander
N Central Area Communications Coord, CI
RR Outpost #215, Ohio District :flag:
RR GMA #83 Potomac Dist-#2366 Nat'l

"Be Ready, It wasn't raining when Noah built the Ark."

fire FCF Frontiersman 9/91, Buckskin ?, Wilderness ? fire
Bourgeois Trapper 5/06, Free Trapper ?
Training Seminars/Camps:
LTC LMA 5/94, Ranger Basics 1/05, LTA LMA 5/05, NTC IL 5/09, WCO 10/09, ICS 4/10, RKTC 7/10, Ranger Essentials 8/10, NRMC 10/11, Training Academy? NEEC? JBIE?
Outpost Leader Advancement Levels:
LMA-Advanced 10/11, MoE 2012-092

RR v1.99

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Re: Ruger 10/22 or Henry US Survival AR-7?

Post by Claymore on January 28th 2014, 4:27 pm

RRCmdrBennett wrote:I can upgrade the barrel and trigger assembly from Ruger directly?  To keep it covered would they want it shipped back to do the upgrades themselves?

No.

The "upgrades" are from other manufacturers. So if you put in an "after-marked" trigger kit and had an incident like the one that I described, Ruger would not stand behind it nor be liable.

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Re: Ruger 10/22 or Henry US Survival AR-7?

Post by RRCmdrBennett on January 28th 2014, 6:40 pm

Do you know of any good after market trigger assemblies and barrels from quality manufactures?

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Dan Bennett
Sr Commander
N Central Area Communications Coord, CI
RR Outpost #215, Ohio District :flag:
RR GMA #83 Potomac Dist-#2366 Nat'l

"Be Ready, It wasn't raining when Noah built the Ark."

fire FCF Frontiersman 9/91, Buckskin ?, Wilderness ? fire
Bourgeois Trapper 5/06, Free Trapper ?
Training Seminars/Camps:
LTC LMA 5/94, Ranger Basics 1/05, LTA LMA 5/05, NTC IL 5/09, WCO 10/09, ICS 4/10, RKTC 7/10, Ranger Essentials 8/10, NRMC 10/11, Training Academy? NEEC? JBIE?
Outpost Leader Advancement Levels:
LMA-Advanced 10/11, MoE 2012-092

RR v1.99

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Re: Ruger 10/22 or Henry US Survival AR-7?

Post by Claymore on January 28th 2014, 7:12 pm

Not first-hand.

Best thing to do is search gun forums for "10-22 Triggers" and "10-22 Barrels" and find out from those who purchased them.

I've got two 10-22's, and about the only things that I would do to trick them up is to add a sling, synthetic stock, and red-dot sight.

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Re: Ruger 10/22 or Henry US Survival AR-7?

Post by RRCmdrBennett on January 28th 2014, 7:52 pm

Thanks.

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Dan Bennett
Sr Commander
N Central Area Communications Coord, CI
RR Outpost #215, Ohio District :flag:
RR GMA #83 Potomac Dist-#2366 Nat'l

"Be Ready, It wasn't raining when Noah built the Ark."

fire FCF Frontiersman 9/91, Buckskin ?, Wilderness ? fire
Bourgeois Trapper 5/06, Free Trapper ?
Training Seminars/Camps:
LTC LMA 5/94, Ranger Basics 1/05, LTA LMA 5/05, NTC IL 5/09, WCO 10/09, ICS 4/10, RKTC 7/10, Ranger Essentials 8/10, NRMC 10/11, Training Academy? NEEC? JBIE?
Outpost Leader Advancement Levels:
LMA-Advanced 10/11, MoE 2012-092

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