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LEAD conference 2014

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Re: LEAD conference 2014

Post by strods on March 28th 2014, 8:13 am

According to the 2014 Fcf forms they aren't asking for the Grizzlys anymore. I may & I hope I'm wrong, but the apps don't have it.

I guess I'm just flabbergasted how on the same thread we're saying the BMA is going to kill FCF & the BMA has been watered down.

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Re: LEAD conference 2014

Post by joecool on March 28th 2014, 10:29 am

strods wrote: Don't get me wrong.  I'm not a fan of change, especially change for no good reason. Do I wish Nat'l would stop changing the program every 2 years? Yes dear God, please.

And therein lies the problem. Too much knee-jerk reaction to the problem-of-the-day, without clearly thinking things through. It leads to more problems and more changes. Does national solicit the input and advice of regional staff, or are decisions made in a closed room in Springfield?

I would guess that 95% of the commanders out there aren't aware of the nickel and dime changes that are constantly made. You can't find them. They're scattered all over the place or buried deeply within someone's post. When leader manuals come out they are instantly outdated. Here's how the military does it. You've got publication X; an official change notice goes out to all holders of the publication; the custodian updates the publication and its good to go; if there's an unwieldy accumulation of changes or a major revision needs to be done, publication X comes out in a new edition. Simple. Maybe too simple. I've got a couple of minutes to burn...I'm sending this method to national right now.

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Re: LEAD conference 2014

Post by Claymore on March 28th 2014, 11:04 am

joecool wrote: Here's how the military does it. You've got publication X; an official change notice goes out to all holders of the publication; the custodian updates the publication and its good to go; if there's an unwieldy accumulation of changes or a major revision needs to be done, publication X comes out in a new edition. Simple. Maybe too simple. I've got a couple of minutes to burn...I'm sending this method to national right now.

Bruce, I believe that it's done intentionally, by Design.

The Joint Chiefs of Staff don't receive $29.95 every time that a Company Clerk posts an Update in a Regulation or a T.M..

If we had completely changed, scrapped, and updated every book and uniform that has come about in the past 6 years, I estimate that it would have cost our outpost about $2,000.00.

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Re: LEAD conference 2014

Post by Mark Jones on March 28th 2014, 2:08 pm


That's just it. No grizzly merits at all. A boy earns his all academic merits with no field experience and we send him out to camp FCF style with no real training.. Not real well thought out there. One thing..most of those boys are not interested in FCF anyway so that won't have a negative affect in the numbers.

Tommarrow I will get a chance to talk to some National Staff folk and will ask their reasoning. I will point out what I showed here.

Mark Jones


[quote="RRCmdrBennett"]They need BMA or GEA plus trail of the grizzly merits?[/quote
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Re: LEAD conference 2014

Post by Phillip Gross on March 28th 2014, 2:30 pm

What are BMA and GEA?
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Re: LEAD conference 2014

Post by joecool on March 28th 2014, 3:04 pm

BMA = Bronze Medal of Achievement
GEA = 1st Expedition medal?

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Re: LEAD conference 2014

Post by strods on March 28th 2014, 4:00 pm

GEA = gold eagle. Discovery 3rd year award
Though for ER's their 1st year medal, the E1 will also count

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Re: LEAD conference 2014

Post by Phillip Gross on March 29th 2014, 7:23 am

Then I agree with Mark. If getting into FCF requires more than the trail of the grizzly, then I don't know that we'll ever make it in....
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Re: LEAD conference 2014

Post by Mark Jones on March 29th 2014, 8:10 am

Just loaded up the PA system out of my attic for our Dvisional Race and am heading off to the Derby Race.

My car is ready. I have FCF Receipts. I have labels for 240 cars and Ribbons. We used to need that ammount. With all the changes in Rangers.. if we have 100 cars there today it will show the signs of the times.

Bottom line is the best thing we could do is take these yuppie change aholics and cast them out with the Bond Woman.

I would also like to give them a swift kick in the you know what and call them a idiot before they get cast out.

I liken this stuff to someone that has a fire going and they keep moving the logs around so they don't catch fire and the fire goes out..it's a simple thing but some folks couldn't keep a fire going to save their lives..they just look busy.

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Re: LEAD conference 2014

Post by strods on March 29th 2014, 8:23 am

Mark Jones wrote:
That's just it.  No grizzly merits at all. A boy earns his all academic merits with no field experience and we send him out to camp FCF style with no real training.. Not real well thought out there.  

In that I totally agree, that why I intend to keep the Grizzly Merits required at least on an Outpost level. It's doesn't make sense not to.
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Re: LEAD conference 2014

Post by strods on March 29th 2014, 8:28 am

Frontier Gazette

Here is the recent edition with a little more info. The new Merits we discussed are a new group of silver class called Arrowheads. Not required for membership but available for trade and skill builders.

The Trapper hours are all hours in all 4 areas. So it still is making things more flexible by allowing service time in your home district count for more. That is something I actually appreciate.
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Re: LEAD conference 2014

Post by Phillip Gross on March 30th 2014, 1:09 am

Phillip Gross wrote:Then I agree with Mark. If getting into FCF requires more than the trail of the grizzly, then I don't know that we'll ever make it in....
I know this is going to sound crazy, but until tonight I didn't understand the advancement trails of DRs, ARs, etc. (There goes that perfection thing Dan...) I guess just getting an outpost off the ground, going through merits, family, work, etc., I hadn't taken time to actually look at the information on the national site...  Embarassed Turns out that either a GEA for a rising DR into AR, or a BMA for a newer boy into the program isn't all that difficult as far as the requirements go. I guess the leadership merit might be difficult for some to do especially if they're a smaller outpost, but with some creativity and desire it can happen.

Or am I missing some glaringly obvious snag?
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Re: LEAD conference 2014

Post by joecool on March 30th 2014, 3:08 am

Claymore wrote:
joecool wrote: Here's how the military does it. You've got publication X; an official change notice goes out to all holders of the publication; the custodian updates the publication and its good to go; if there's an unwieldy accumulation of changes or a major revision needs to be done, publication X comes out in a new edition. Simple. Maybe too simple. I've got a couple of minutes to burn...I'm sending this method to national right now.

Bruce, I believe that it's done intentionally, by Design.

I'll let you know what kind of response I get. Hey, I can dream, right?

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Re: LEAD conference 2014

Post by Phillip Gross on March 30th 2014, 7:07 am

Maybe it is that they just don't know better... Worth a try. while you're at it, send a letter to GPH and see if they can build a more cohesive, easier to navigate website. I can't find things I'm looking for half the time. And if I do find it, I can't find it again in a couple months when I look for it...  :evil:
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Re: LEAD conference 2014

Post by ccm2361 on March 30th 2014, 3:10 pm

Well, I offer this from the mouth of Doug Marsh in 2012 (I think it was 2012)

First we will change it, then we will announce it later.

I guess they got tired of announcing a change & then getting loads of email form the field telling them why that is impractical

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Re: LEAD conference 2014

Post by Phillip Gross on March 30th 2014, 8:01 pm

I don't always disagree with that approach. If you wait to get all the hands input on the direction the ship should sail, it'll never leave harbor. Decisions need to made that sometimes don't make everyone happy. Either sail with the ship or jump ship... 

Now a good captain should at least listen to his crew, but a decision must be made at some point.
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Re: LEAD conference 2014

Post by joecool on March 30th 2014, 8:56 pm

But let's pray it doesn't get to the point where the captain goes down with the ship.

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Re: LEAD conference 2014

Post by RRCmdrBennett on March 30th 2014, 10:02 pm

Its understood that in the military orders change but a crew will lose confidence in their Commander if he appears weak or erratic. Remember good Kirk forgot that when he was split in TOS?  Lose confidence of your men/women you lose respect, lose respect you lose command. Remember the HMS Bounty?

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Re: LEAD conference 2014

Post by strods on March 30th 2014, 11:26 pm

ahh back to Trek again. Everything I need to know in life I Learned . . .

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Re: LEAD conference 2014

Post by RRCmdrBennett on March 30th 2014, 11:47 pm

strods wrote:ahh back to Trek again.  Everything I need to know in life I Learned . . .
So true!  Want to be a great leader watch Capt'n Kirk. He listens to the advice of his sr staff, makes a decision quickly, and takes full responsibility for his actions and that of his crew. Nat'l would do well to follow Kirk's example.

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Re: LEAD conference 2014

Post by Phillip Gross on March 31st 2014, 4:54 am

If only we all had screenwriters in life. Smile
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Re: LEAD conference 2014

Post by Mark Jones on March 31st 2014, 4:50 pm

Trappers has been that way for long time already. That is not a new change. Keeping track of 4 different kinds of hours is nuts though. I have 11 men and boys to recognize in 2 weeks at Commanders Conference. It was difficult to get that amount by just them counting total hours...divided that up 4 ways.. and they will say naaah..it's not worth the hassle.

We used to track local/nonlocal and they got only half a point for local hours.. grrr!
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strods wrote:Frontier Gazette

Here is the recent edition with a little more info.  The new Merits we discussed are a new group of silver class called Arrowheads.  Not required for membership but available for trade and skill builders.

The Trapper hours are all hours in all 4 areas.  So it still is making things more flexible by allowing service time in your home district count for more.  That is something I actually appreciate.  
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Re: LEAD conference 2014

Post by Mark Jones on March 31st 2014, 5:01 pm

Well I talked to Rick Dostal many know him by his FCF Name of Simon Tanner. I also talked with several that attended the Lead Conf this past weekend.

I asked him if he looked at our National Stats on BMA and GE awards? He said no. I said after it's all done and said we will have a 45% reduction in our Chapters FCF apps next year. He said he hoped not and they would keep a eye on it.

Rick is a good Ranger friend of mine. We cross paths all the time and he is our Chapter Scribe so we communicate all the time. He told me it was a directive to bring FCF under the RR Advancement system. He saw my aggravation on this new requirement. I said ..Rick we only have 3% or less of boys that earn the GMA....why would we want to do this to FCF. The BMA is 1/3 of the way to the GMA. Guys if the BMA percentage was 80% of all Rangers going in I could see it..but it's not anywhere close to that number..not even a third of it. If it was there would be hundreds of pages on the National Website showing them. It just was not thought out again.

I told Rick I was tired of these guys trying to fly this air plane into the ground with their new and improved ideas...I am sick of it.

We have had almost no Boyscout troops coming over into Rangers. Why? Because we are no longer a Church Boyscout group and said to say moving even farther away from it by the month. Undertaker will be busy if we don't start breathing some life into this ministry. We had 142 cars at Divisional Race. Not terrible but I remember days of 100 more.

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Re: LEAD conference 2014

Post by RRCmdrBennett on March 31st 2014, 8:03 pm

Phillip Gross wrote:If only we all had screenwriters in life. Smile
True, but the qualities and characters he portrayed are what great leaders exhibit. Not everyone can be captn Kirk or crewman Rand or a Spock. Thats why his empower everyone to be a lifelong captn/crewman doesn't fly the way man wants it to. In the movies Spock says to Kirk that accepting promotion to Admiral was a mistake. His first best destiny is to command a starship, anything less is a waste of material. Same for a Christian we have to do what God has called us to do not try to empower others to do what we want through our training and methods. 


Mark, it doesn't surprise me that they haven't given it much thought of the ramifications of requiring it. I imagine if doesn't drop dramatically many boys will be rushed through the BMA process to get them in FCF.  Upside new BMA is 50% of what it used to be.

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Re: LEAD conference 2014

Post by Phillip Gross on March 31st 2014, 8:13 pm

Mark Jones wrote:
I told Rick I was tired of these guys trying to fly this air plane into the ground with their new and improved ideas...I am sick of it.


Mark Jones

Any response from that? I'm just curious what people's replies are to you (outside of this forum). Is there a movement of unsatisfied commanders, other than those that simply throw their hands up and leave?
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Re: LEAD conference 2014

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