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Royal Rangers stats

Post by ccm2361 on December 30th 2013, 6:42 pm

back in April of 2012 I discovered the AG's stats page & posted about it on the old board.

Old Forum

Here is what I posted

CCM2361 wrote:
2003 107,865 rangers & 19,005 Commanders

2004 106,398 rangers & 18,680 Commanders


2005  102,057 Rangers 17,954 Commanders

2006   99,536 rangers  17,109  Commanders

2007 93,726 rangers & 16,384 Commanders


2008  87,741 rangers & 15,444 Commanders

2009  85,247 rangers & 14,888 Commanders

2010   81,131 Rangers & 14,172 Commanders

from 2004 to 2006 we lost 6862 rangers & 1571 Commanders

From 2006 to 2008 we lost 5810 Rangers & 725 Commanders

From 2008 to 2010 we lost 6610 rangers & 1272 Commanders

I went back to the stats page today & ........NO Ranger new stats have been posted since the 2010 stats!  what  Lots of of 2011 & 2012 stats for other areas of the church, but no Rangers (or Mpact) stats. Now I wonder why that is?  um


AG stats

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Re: Royal Rangers stats

Post by Mark Jones on December 30th 2013, 8:31 pm

The purpose driven life is anti bad reports..they just try and ignore it and hope it will go away.  When you have done all your psyc tests and put your faith in that mumbo jumbo... well I can pretty much count on God not to Bless it.  

When we take our faith off Christ and what He has done and paid for at the Cross and put that faitht in our methods, tests, programs and steps...it's the same thing as not believing in Christ any more it's believing in something else...the other gospel.

I wished it was different. I wished I could say it's all about Christ and winning souls.  That is simply no longer the case.  to me it's weird that they would even think faith in something else could work.  

The numbers pretty much show this happening.  In 2014 I would venture to say if you plotted it you would be shocked to see just how low those numbers have dropped.  

Rangers and the AG need to get back to looking to God instead of themselves.  Once that happens again... we will see the Blessings of God again.

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Re: Royal Rangers stats

Post by Phillip Gross on December 30th 2013, 8:41 pm

I would love to see what the actual numbers are. The proof is in the pudding, right? If 2.0 is actually working then the numbers will show it. Obviously we all know that the opposite is happening.

National reminds me of another administration, but I can't quite put my finger on which one.... Dunno

Our outpost is doing pretty well, but we run it fairly 1.0
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Re: Royal Rangers stats

Post by Phillip Gross on December 30th 2013, 8:43 pm

Mark Jones wrote:

The numbers pretty much show this happening.  In 2014 I would venture to say if you plotted it you would be shocked to see just how low those numbers have dropped.  

Rangers and the AG need to get back to looking to God instead of themselves.  Once that happens again... we will see the Blessings of God again.

Mark Jones

What happens to RR if they don't (in your opinion)?
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Re: Royal Rangers stats

Post by joecool on December 30th 2013, 10:00 pm

Without adherence to it's core principles/mission, any organization can free-fall and reach the point of not being able to sustain itself. It doesn't help when the changing mission statement confuses who's left.

A failing organization that puts out a consumer product and fails, generally gets swallowed up by a bigger/healthier outfit. When the product is less tangible...the organization just disappears.

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Re: Royal Rangers stats

Post by RRCmdrBennett on December 30th 2013, 10:28 pm

Philip, you're beginning to under denominational church leadership is as political as any nation. Only churches get to throw out lines about, "touch not God's anointed", "theocracy", and "submission because I'm God appointed". You bet #'s are dismal since they called and emailed the unchartered outposts to check on us. Thats an historic first.

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Re: Royal Rangers stats

Post by Phillip Gross on December 30th 2013, 10:47 pm

Oh I know denominational organizations are political. Anything with people involved will be political. The question is whether it's good politics or not, but there will always be politics because it's human nature.
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Re: Royal Rangers stats

Post by RRCmdrBennett on December 30th 2013, 11:36 pm

When I say politics I can't think of any good thing.


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Re: Royal Rangers stats

Post by Phillip Gross on December 31st 2013, 12:17 am

It's nothing more than a vehicle. Where it goes, and if it runs people over is a possibility instead of an absolute. Same with money. Money isn't the root of all evil, but the love of it is. Money can be used positively or negatively.

I think we need to be careful when deciding how we feel about government and politics. If we're not careful we can end up in the anarchist's camp....
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Re: Royal Rangers stats

Post by RRCmdrBennett on December 31st 2013, 12:30 am

So true but it feels like we're living in lawless times.

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Re: Royal Rangers stats

Post by joecool on December 31st 2013, 11:19 am

I wonder... would the national numbers look much healthier if all the wildcat outposts were included? And if Springfield was aware of the number, and the reasons why they didn't charter, would it prompt them to take corrective action?

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Re: Royal Rangers stats

Post by Claymore on December 31st 2013, 1:47 pm

Bruce, I think that would require an attitude of self-examination that does not exist in Springfield.  They only want to hear feedback of what is going right.  In fact, if you offer criticism (constructive or otherwise) you are told to "...get on board, or get off the bus" (Doug Marsh's own words).

In your career, I'm sure that you have seen Directives for new policies come down that the folks in the Ranks disagreed with.  But in the Military, those folks signed your paychecks and had the Legal Authority to make you follow their directives, even if you disagreed; so you may as well go along with the program.

They were delegated the Authority of the President of the United States, and you had taken an oath to follow his orders (like him or not).

It is interesting to note the Springfield Staff's outward disdain for the Military, yet they want us to follow their directives like they are the Joint Chiefs of Staff.

There was a former member who said that Doug Marsh was, "....put there by God".  Of course the inference being that he had been delegated the Authority of God, and to disobey him was to disobey God.  

I ain't drinking that Kool-Aid.

They do not sign my Pay-Check.  They do not have the Moral High Ground.  And they do not have our "Hearts & Minds".

(de Oppresso Liber)

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Re: Royal Rangers stats

Post by Mark Jones on December 31st 2013, 2:40 pm

I will have 35 years with at&t in 2 days.  In those 35 years I have seen 10 time 10 policies that come down the pipe that hurt the business and stifle customer service.  These things come in many forms and fashions.  Some are there to help save money. Others are to increase productivity.  Others are just a bean counters dream.  

Liken this to our Church and our Rangers program. We have "the same" things going on.  It's a hopeless thing but the Bible tells us what will happen to the church..it will go whoring after the world.  I would say the Bible nailed it right now.  Never in my life have I ever seen the church so out in the flesh and away from God.

When I first got into Rangers the Church was all around souls saved and infilling of the Holy Spirit and God's healing.  

Today.  So very sad to say.  It's politics.  It's service to people. It's faith in pscyo.  It's men empowering men.  

Thankfully there are still pockets of church and church folk that have not been deceived and are not out whoring after the world and it's ways.  

IF we want to see the Blessings of God we MUST GET OUR FAITH BACK INTO CHRIST AND WHAT HE HAS DONE FOR US at the cross.  Not our pitiful pathetic weak ideas of community service.  

It's all about Christ.  There in must lay our faith.  Keep it there don't pick it up and put it in a water bottle handing out program.  That's foolishness.

Even camping and you all know how much I love to camp...with out the presentation of the Gospel and the preaching of the Word it's just a good ole boys club.  We as a church and a RR program are way out of balance.  

I don't hate these people. They are as imperfect as I am.  They are doing their best to develop these programs but have lost site of what makes it work.. FAITH not works.

The truth is. I tear up hoping they will once again see Jesus and get their faith back on him. I dispise the foolishness.
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Re: Royal Rangers stats

Post by Claymore on December 31st 2013, 3:15 pm

Mark Jones for National Commander!!!

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Re: Royal Rangers stats

Post by joecool on December 31st 2013, 3:39 pm

On a more personal level, this will all be moot if the "new guy" decides to cancel Rangers and M'nettes (my wife still refuses to call it MPact). But I do sigh when I think about what these programs used to accomplish.

At the time I heard it, I thought it one of the most profound things I'd ever come across. "The culture that children are in changes every 5-7 years. If you don't change with it, you'll lose the kids." There's some truth to that. It's smart to update the medium (how you present something), but it's foolish to change the message itself.

Change for change's sake
does not a wise choice make.

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Re: Royal Rangers stats

Post by Claymore on December 31st 2013, 3:46 pm

joecool wrote:

Change for change's sake
does not a wise choice make.

That sounds like a quote from an old E-7 or E-8.

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Re: Royal Rangers stats

Post by RRCmdrBennett on December 31st 2013, 3:47 pm

National what...?   Laughing 

You're right on Mark. On the other hand the Word does say to show your faith by your works. Works isn't a dirty word if our faith is true it will bring forth fruit. I agree the program/ministry is focusing more on generating leaders and servants first before Salvation and Holy Spirit infilling. The power of the Spirit was to give boldness to be witnesses not necessarily good works. Not an evil thing to hand out water bottles, clothe, and feed the needy just without the gospel being the focus its as filthy rags (tampons).

Regarding disdain for the military I perceive its just a perfect example of trying to appease both sides and remain politically correct. At Camporama they had Army chaplain tent setup, Blackhawk helio land, and in one of the training videos features a marine turned navy chaplain testifying how Royal Rangers made an impact on him. They claimed the bars and cmdr title made some go overboard. I guess old NTC is an example of that.

Bruce, i agree some updating is necessary for the program. Te focus still remains the same. Many FCF guys in Potomac hailed the reference guides and merit lesson guides as a positive addition but thought most of it wasn't that great.

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Re: Royal Rangers stats

Post by ccm2361 on December 31st 2013, 4:37 pm

Claymore wrote:Mark Jones for National Commander!!!

HEAR HEAR! I second the motion Cool 

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Re: Royal Rangers stats

Post by RRCmdrBennett on December 31st 2013, 9:48 pm

Just like our president is controlled by an elite few so is our national commander/director. A/G executive leadership is really in control.

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Re: Royal Rangers stats

Post by Phillip Gross on January 1st 2014, 5:22 am

Well hopefully they'll see with the starting of Trail Life after what has happened with the BSA, that people do actually want an "old camping ministry" for our kids. Maybe they'll finally see that precisely BECAUSE we're in this "iPod generation" that we need an "old camping ministry". As things become more and more automated, people start looking for something authentic. Hopefully they'll finally get that and either steer Doug or replace him....
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Re: Royal Rangers stats

Post by ccm2361 on January 1st 2014, 10:21 am

I sure hope so

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Re: Royal Rangers stats

Post by joecool on January 1st 2014, 1:13 pm

Why not a barrage of camping "selfies" with boys and commanders, to remind national what it's all about?

Just a side note. It all reminds me of the Urban Rangers attempt some years ago. It was a dismal failure because inner city pastors and commanders resented being treated differently from other rangers.

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Re: Royal Rangers stats

Post by Mark Jones on January 1st 2014, 1:54 pm

We tried telling them. They just told us they knew better. Then they used some of the latest and greatest Rick Warren doctorine and tried kicking folks off the bus. GRIN! Did that ever backfire on them.

I liken these guys to a good hearted kid that throws a big rock with both hands straight up into the air and then looks up to see where it went... then grins when it barely missed crushing his skull and then he looks for another rock to do it again.

Some folks have that kind of sense. Sad to say a lot of those folks are in charge of things. GRIN! Perhaps we need to change our stradegy and not tell them and jump and shout with the rest of these senseless folk for a successful rock launch. GRIN! I am just kidding. If it's anything like at&t they will soon get promoted to another department and our side will once again get back to being what God wanted it to be.

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Re: Royal Rangers stats

Post by Mark Jones on January 1st 2014, 1:59 pm

Urban Rangers and the Challengers program were all precursors of many ways to being a RR. They didn't work then and as we can see it's not working now.

Some good ideas just don't work. I have to hand it to them. IT's a great idea. It just Doesn't WORK!
Mark Jones
p.s. Once these guys are gone... it won't be long before someone else will want to try the great idea all over again...perhaps they have a special tweak..to do that will make it work... the circle of life! GRIN!
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Re: Royal Rangers stats

Post by Phillip Gross on January 1st 2014, 2:22 pm

IMHO, it seems like there's just one big problem, and that is that we're not a camping program. THAT is the engine that gets everything else done! It's been a "mentoring" program from the very beginning. Maybe they didn't use that term, but it was. Change the lessons. Change uniforms and patches if you want. Even change the names of the various age groups, but it needs to remain an outdoor program. I think everything else is just details. Some changes might upset people, but it wouldn't destroy the ministry.
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