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Uniforms and Patches

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Re: Uniforms and Patches

Post by smokey/somo on June 17th 2013, 3:52 am

all i can say is i'm really interested in this conversation.  we run a JB style outpost. my really big problem is getting advancements. but it looks like phillip is working that out for us, ( so when are you gonna start selling ribbons phillip?). 

p.s. don't forget straight arrow, buckaroo, and pioneer advancements
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Re: Uniforms and Patches

Post by ccm2361 on June 17th 2013, 1:28 pm

Looks like Phil  could have himself a new business Smile
Smokey/somo wrote:we run a JB style outpost.

Now I would like to hear more about that!

How have you been getting you advancement patches/pins for the last 13 years?
I assume Buying used.

Tell us some about how your outpost works. (I came into RR late in the Marriot era so I have little knowledge of JB program)

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Re: Uniforms and Patches

Post by Claymore on June 17th 2013, 8:40 pm

Good for you, Smokey.

I would run completely RR 1.0, if we could.

However, when I came to Mississippi, you could no longer get ANY of the old awards or materials.

So we had to start-up and outfit this outpost as a RR 1.5 System, and we're sticking with that.

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Re: Uniforms and Patches

Post by RRCmdrBennett on June 17th 2013, 9:30 pm

RR1.0 was a simple yet eloquent system where a stripe or pin level meant something. No skipping 3 levels in one weekend. If we can't go back I'd like the first 3 groups to be like ER is now one level patch per year.

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RR GMA #83 Potomac Dist-#2366 Nat'l

"Be Ready, It wasn't raining when Noah built the Ark."

fire FCF Frontiersman 9/91, Buckskin ?, Wilderness ? fire
Bourgeois Trapper 5/06, Free Trapper ?
Training Seminars/Camps:
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Re: Uniforms and Patches

Post by smokey/somo on June 18th 2013, 8:58 am

my church started RR last fall, i go to a small independant church with no A/G ties. we average 35 people on sundays and on wednesday we usually run 3 straight arrows, 3 buckaroos, 0 pioneers right now, & 4 TB's 1 is a young lady .
my wife is the st. arrow leader another guy is buckaroo leader, i take care of pioneers & TB'S.  i have been hoarding old RR (pre 93) stuff for a long time.  we use new adventures in camping ( really no alternative) then i make 3 ring binders for each ranger, i copy the old advancement req. into their binders.  we have been slow on earning advancement, i think uniforms would help, we'll get there eventually
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Re: Uniforms and Patches

Post by ccm2361 on June 18th 2013, 9:57 pm

smokey/somo wrote:we usually run 3 straight arrows, 3 buckaroos, 0 pioneers right now, & 4 TB's 1 is a young lady .

We have been coed since 2010. we currently have  4 boys & 4 girls.

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Re: Uniforms and Patches

Post by Claymore on June 18th 2013, 11:41 pm

For uniforms, I go on ebay and get used khaki shirts from former Marines (sometimes for $2.50 to $4.00 per shirt). 

For ceremonies, if all the kids are in decked-out khaki shirts, white T-shirts & blue jeans, the parents love it (and don't know the difference from wearing a $75.00 GPH gitup).

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Re: Uniforms and Patches

Post by RRCmdrBennett on June 19th 2013, 3:50 am

We just require utility shirt and jeans with white tee shirt. Only cost is the $25 we charge for the shirts.

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RR Outpost #215, Ohio District :flag:
RR GMA #83 Potomac Dist-#2366 Nat'l

"Be Ready, It wasn't raining when Noah built the Ark."

fire FCF Frontiersman 9/91, Buckskin ?, Wilderness ? fire
Bourgeois Trapper 5/06, Free Trapper ?
Training Seminars/Camps:
LTC LMA 5/94, Ranger Basics 1/05, LTA LMA 5/05, NTC IL 5/09, WCO 10/09, ICS 4/10, RKTC 7/10, Ranger Essentials 8/10, NRMC 10/11, Training Academy? NEEC? JBIE?
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Re: Uniforms and Patches

Post by Claymore on June 19th 2013, 10:56 am

We keep an inventory of about 20 shirts, and they remain in the Ranger Room.  When we have a special event, the boys just come 20 minutes prior to the event in T-shirt & jeans & get dressed for the ceremony.

So, about twice per year, we have a "check uniform fit" day at the outpost.  If a shirt is getting too tight on a boy, we just D/X (Direct-Exchange) for one from the inventory.

The shirts are numbered, and so we keep a clipboard with each boy's name and assigned uniform number.

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Re: Uniforms and Patches

Post by RRCmdrBennett on June 19th 2013, 12:33 pm

So initial startup cost is higher but after that the outpost and boys save $. No requiring parents to keep buying uniforms. Nice!

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Dan Bennett
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RR Outpost #215, Ohio District :flag:
RR GMA #83 Potomac Dist-#2366 Nat'l

"Be Ready, It wasn't raining when Noah built the Ark."

fire FCF Frontiersman 9/91, Buckskin ?, Wilderness ? fire
Bourgeois Trapper 5/06, Free Trapper ?
Training Seminars/Camps:
LTC LMA 5/94, Ranger Basics 1/05, LTA LMA 5/05, NTC IL 5/09, WCO 10/09, ICS 4/10, RKTC 7/10, Ranger Essentials 8/10, NRMC 10/11, Training Academy? NEEC? JBIE?
Outpost Leader Advancement Levels:
LMA-Advanced 10/11, MoE 2012-092

RR v1.99

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Re: Uniforms and Patches

Post by Claymore on June 19th 2013, 2:45 pm

Absolutely.

Here in Mississippi, things like the cost of uniforms could be an obstruction to the Program.

Also, I have a trick.

I designate about $30.00 per week of my Tythes/Offerings to Royal Rangers, so that money goes directly into the account for this Ministry.

I don't have to go begging the Pastor for funds, and I just submit receipts for reimbursement.

$30.00 per week may not seem like much, but with that, plus about $5.00 per week from the Outpost Offerings, we have $350.00 every 10 weeks for compasses, maps, shooting medals, BB-Guns, Targets, other awards, weekly door-prizes, etc.

We keep all of our uniforms & resources in the Ranger Room, rather than send them home.  I have noticed that the boys who contribute least to the Program are the ones who are also the least respectful of Outpost Gear.

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Re: Uniforms and Patches

Post by RRCmdrBennett on June 19th 2013, 5:14 pm

So true. We get a budget of $1500 per year for curriculum, gear, and chartering. If I want to buy some bows, tents, and other big ticket items I get pre-approval for that. Usually big stuff we do fundraisers. Last two fundraisers combined made $2000 toward camporama. If we can fundraise at least half of that o avg from now on we could buy utility shirts for everyone and have them wear them for cofa and parades. Could even buy tactical pants for parades too. I like them better than jeans of all different shades of blue.

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Dan Bennett
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RR Outpost #215, Ohio District :flag:
RR GMA #83 Potomac Dist-#2366 Nat'l

"Be Ready, It wasn't raining when Noah built the Ark."

fire FCF Frontiersman 9/91, Buckskin ?, Wilderness ? fire
Bourgeois Trapper 5/06, Free Trapper ?
Training Seminars/Camps:
LTC LMA 5/94, Ranger Basics 1/05, LTA LMA 5/05, NTC IL 5/09, WCO 10/09, ICS 4/10, RKTC 7/10, Ranger Essentials 8/10, NRMC 10/11, Training Academy? NEEC? JBIE?
Outpost Leader Advancement Levels:
LMA-Advanced 10/11, MoE 2012-092

RR v1.99

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Re: Uniforms and Patches

Post by Phillip Gross on June 24th 2013, 12:14 am

Still debating about what to do about our uniforms and patches. Had another meeting today. We like the plan of creating a rank system within our outpost, but the nuts and bolts of bringing in a khaki uniform may not be realistic for us at this time.

I still don't like the idea of vests for the older boys, so we're kicking around the idea of a navy blue sash ala BSA style. That would enable us to use current patches, or make our own, and would be uber cheap. 

As far as the rank insignia goes, I'm considering designing Velcro patches that could be changed as boys advance that would go on the right sleeve under the outpost number patch. Of course it's all still on the story boards right now, so we'll have to see how things shake out when we go to make it reality....
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Re: Uniforms and Patches

Post by RRCmdrBennett on June 24th 2013, 10:10 am

Ranks as patrol ranks or advancement ranks?

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Dan Bennett
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RR Outpost #215, Ohio District :flag:
RR GMA #83 Potomac Dist-#2366 Nat'l

"Be Ready, It wasn't raining when Noah built the Ark."

fire FCF Frontiersman 9/91, Buckskin ?, Wilderness ? fire
Bourgeois Trapper 5/06, Free Trapper ?
Training Seminars/Camps:
LTC LMA 5/94, Ranger Basics 1/05, LTA LMA 5/05, NTC IL 5/09, WCO 10/09, ICS 4/10, RKTC 7/10, Ranger Essentials 8/10, NRMC 10/11, Training Academy? NEEC? JBIE?
Outpost Leader Advancement Levels:
LMA-Advanced 10/11, MoE 2012-092

RR v1.99

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Re: Uniforms and Patches

Post by Phillip Gross on June 24th 2013, 10:53 am

Advancement ranks. The "patrol leader", "asst patrol leader", "gear manager", etc seems like arbitrary positions that will be changed up periodically by vote, or simple rotation, but the rank we're developing (re-inventing) will be completely earned.
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Re: Uniforms and Patches

Post by sreidelberger on June 27th 2013, 10:30 pm

Phillip Gross wrote:Advancement ranks. The "patrol leader", "asst patrol leader", "gear manager", etc seems like arbitrary positions that will be changed up periodically by vote, or simple rotation, but the rank we're developing (re-inventing) will be completely earned.

In the old days, the patrol guide and assistant patrol guide were elected from within their patrol. The Senior patrol guide could be either elected by the outpost or appointed by the commander. Boys would normally hold office for 6 months but the commander had the option to extend each term an additional 6 months. No boy was to hold the same office for more than one year.

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Re: Uniforms and Patches

Post by Phillip Gross on June 27th 2013, 10:39 pm

We still do it that way to some extent. Obviously the Patrol Leaders should be advancing, but it's not a direct result of advancement. I want something that directly shows something they've EARNED, not just elected/appointed.
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Re: Uniforms and Patches

Post by RRCmdrBennett on June 27th 2013, 11:11 pm

I think it was designed that way to allow each boy a chance to try leadership. NTC rotated guides and asst guides each day.

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Dan Bennett
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RR Outpost #215, Ohio District :flag:
RR GMA #83 Potomac Dist-#2366 Nat'l

"Be Ready, It wasn't raining when Noah built the Ark."

fire FCF Frontiersman 9/91, Buckskin ?, Wilderness ? fire
Bourgeois Trapper 5/06, Free Trapper ?
Training Seminars/Camps:
LTC LMA 5/94, Ranger Basics 1/05, LTA LMA 5/05, NTC IL 5/09, WCO 10/09, ICS 4/10, RKTC 7/10, Ranger Essentials 8/10, NRMC 10/11, Training Academy? NEEC? JBIE?
Outpost Leader Advancement Levels:
LMA-Advanced 10/11, MoE 2012-092

RR v1.99

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Re: Uniforms and Patches

Post by ccm2361 on July 3rd 2013, 7:04 am

We used to elect patrol leaders & Assistants, but we always got kids who were popular, but lousy leaders.  Neutral 
Since then I have pretty much appointed them. (I do  try to give everyone a shot at being an Assistant)


Last edited by ccm2361 on July 3rd 2013, 4:19 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Uniforms and Patches

Post by Phillip Gross on July 3rd 2013, 2:19 pm

Yeah it's about time for us to switch up PL's along with the other positions.
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Re: Uniforms and Patches

Post by Phillip Gross on July 23rd 2013, 10:59 am

Well after a good bit of contemplation on this subject,.... I'm having second thoughts about doing a complete rework. We may develop a rank system within our outpost that runs parallel with the RR Advancement system to create a sense of accomplishment that transcends the age groups, but I don't know about completely scraping the official system in lieu of another.

Had a BS come visit our outpost the other week to see if he wanted to convert (apparently he didn't) and I realized that our not running the official advancement ladder made us appear disorganized. It also made me acutely aware that there will be boys who will transfer in and out of our outpost and I don't want to cause problems regardless of the direction they're taking.

Like I said, I still think we may add a rank structure within our outpost because in a lot of ways we have that "one room school house" feel. The different advancements within each age group don't seem to carry as much recognition outside of the age group themselves. OR we're just not running the thing properly and it would if we did... Wink 

On that thought, I think I need to understand the existing system inside and out before I make a move in any direction. I know I know, that 5 pages into a thread is a fine time to come to that conclusion! Laughing But that just shows the value of this forum. Without being able to talk it out, I may have went off half cocked in real life (outside of cyberspace) and really caused some problems.
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Re: Uniforms and Patches

Post by Phillip Gross on August 10th 2015, 10:23 am

ccm2361 wrote:actually I have one.
I can scan the relevant pages & email them if you need it sooner.
So apparently finding an original Trailblazers handbook is a little more difficult than I had initially thought. I also haven't been searching this whole time because I shelved the idea for awhile,... but I'm kind of thinking about it again. I like the idea of a ranking system and want to see what the original requirements were for gaining rank. This would, as I mentioned before, be a system that runs in parallel with the merits in Rangers (if we do it at all).

So Chris, do you still have that book? Or does anyone else have one that shows the old chevron ranking patches and their requirements?
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Re: Uniforms and Patches

Post by Phillip Gross on August 10th 2015, 10:25 am

Oh yeah, I'm also re-entertaining the idea of just going with a Dickies shirt instead of the utility shirt. After wearing the official utility shirt for a few years now, I still don't like it. Not to mention that the Dickies shirts can be had for about half the price depending on where you buy them...
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Re: Uniforms and Patches

Post by Phillip Gross on August 10th 2015, 11:00 am

Phillip Gross wrote:
So apparently finding an original Trailblazers handbook is a little more difficult than I had initially thought.

Or not... Embarassed Adjusted my search criteria and ended up finding a copy from 1975 online. Ordered it.
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Re: Uniforms and Patches

Post by Claymore on August 10th 2015, 12:51 pm

If you are willing to go with short-sleeved shirts, you can go to ebay and do a search for U.S. Navy or Marine Khaki Shirts. You can often find them in near-new condition for $2.00 to $4.00 each.

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Re: Uniforms and Patches

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