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Breaking in the new guy

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Re: Breaking in the new guy

Post by Phillip Gross on December 11th 2013, 7:52 pm

Yeah, I understand the numbering system. It makes sense too. If an outpost wants to restart, then they can still have the same number they had before.

To me, "full gospel" is a broad term to define churches who believe, and participate in the gifts of the Spirit as well as speaking in tongues, etc.
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Re: Breaking in the new guy

Post by RRCmdrBennett on December 11th 2013, 9:53 pm

Phillip Gross wrote:Yeah, I understand the numbering system. It makes sense too. If an outpost wants to restart, then they can still have the same number they had before.

To me, "full gospel" is a broad term to define churches who believe, and participate in the gifts of the Spirit as well as speaking in tongues, etc.

So you mean pentacostal/charismatic I guess.

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Re: Breaking in the new guy

Post by Phillip Gross on December 12th 2013, 5:12 am

I guess... We have a baptist church in town that believes in the modern working of the Holy Spirit. You'll see laying on of hands, speaking in tongues, healing, prophecy, etc at their services. They accept what happened on the day of "Pentecost", and they are more "charismatic" than reserved in their approach to spiritual activities.... I just call it "full Gospel" when referring to churches that don't cut out certain things claiming those things were only for the disciples and early church. I guess it's the same thing as saying Pentecostal or Charismatic, but those two terms have become words that point to certain denominations in a sense... 

Clear as mud now? Laughing
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Re: Breaking in the new guy

Post by RRCmdrBennett on December 12th 2013, 10:16 am

To me full gospel just the core gospel of the blood of Christ is the only necessary thing for salvation. To me its confusing when Baptist who are really pentacostal/charismatic still want to be called Baptist. The image of a Baptist is strong in my mind of one who rejects Pentacostal belief. Its the same way Mark associates empowerment with new age self-help and politics.

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Re: Breaking in the new guy

Post by Phillip Gross on December 12th 2013, 11:47 am

People like labels. I'm not as into labels which is why I usually gravitate to nondenominational churches.
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Re: Breaking in the new guy

Post by Claymore on December 12th 2013, 12:17 pm

RRCmdrBennett wrote: To me its confusing when Baptist who are really pentacostal/charismatic still want to be called Baptist.

The term is "Baptisticostal". While their basic foundation is from the teachings of the Baptist Church, they believe and accept the capability of the Holy Spirit to be active in their lives.

I actually find many of them to be pretty reasonable Christians. Sometimes we have some "wingnuts" gravitate to Fundamentalist Pentacostal Churches who believe that the measure of your holiness is by how much noise you make, and how much you whirl around in the front of the Church

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Re: Breaking in the new guy

Post by joecool on December 12th 2013, 1:01 pm

At one AG church I attended back in the 80's, we often had a certain guest speaker on Sunday evenings. He was an older Catholic priest who was spirit-filled and also laid hands on the sick. Always a treat when he came.

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Re: Breaking in the new guy

Post by Claymore on December 12th 2013, 1:19 pm

Bruce, I appreciate that.

Kenneth Copeland related about 2 Catholic Nuns who came to one of his services.  He stated that he prayed with them, and that they started Raising their Hands, Praising, and Speaking in Tongues. He said, "If you don't think that a Catholic Nun can get filled with the Holy Spirit, you didn't see these gals!"

I think that all of our Denominations can have preconceived notions: some more; some less; but all some.

If Christian Churches could concentrate on the 92% that we agree on, and not the 8% that we disagree on, we could save ourselves a lot of trouble.

If our church brings in 20 new members, but we take them away from the Baptists or Methodists, (in God's Universe) it's not a "gain", it's a "wash".

Bringing in (or bringing back) folks who are not currently attending Church is the true "gain" (as Jesus related in the parables about the Protigal Son, and the Shepherd who found his Lost Sheep).

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Re: Breaking in the new guy

Post by Phillip Gross on December 12th 2013, 4:37 pm

I totally agree with that about "converts" Claymore. There's way too much infighting within the body of Christ. Body of Christ. Think about that. In that amazingly simple metaphor it completely explains that followers of Christ WILL look and act differently at times. The important part is that we believe there is only ONE way to gain salvation and that one way is Jesus Christ.

As a side note, I remember the first time I met a spirit filled Catholic back when I was 17. Talk about challenging my presuppositions that day! Laughing
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Re: Breaking in the new guy

Post by Mark Jones on December 12th 2013, 7:10 pm

We had a Baptist Church in our Rangers. They were Baptist by title but AG by nature. Lots of family and friends that are Baptists. Half of our backpacking groups are Baptist. I agree we need to focus on the 92% and allow God's grace on the other 8 %. Nothing more dangerous than religious people. They shoot first and ask questions later. GRIN!

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Claymore wrote:
RRCmdrBennett wrote: To me its confusing when Baptist who are really pentacostal/charismatic still want to be called Baptist.

The term is "Baptisticostal".  While their basic foundation is from the teachings of the Baptist Church, they believe and accept the capability of the Holy Spirit to be active in their lives.  

I actually find many of them to be pretty reasonable Christians.  Sometimes we have some "wingnuts" gravitate to Fundamentalist Pentacostal Churches who believe that the measure of your holiness is by how much noise you make, and how much you whirl around in the front of the Church
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Re: Breaking in the new guy

Post by RRCmdrBennett on December 13th 2013, 2:27 am

Oh I wasn't picking on differences but many times labels brand people and churches.

Out of curiousity Claymore what does the papacy have to say about its members, nuns, or priests speaking in tongues?  I know they still believe in miracles as that is a requirement for sainthood. Sainthood is another 8% thing I guess cause when I read the bible all members of the churches are addressed as Saints not just ones with a nice resume of good works.

It'll be better when all of us are in one fold.

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Re: Breaking in the new guy

Post by Claymore on December 13th 2013, 5:26 pm

My understanding is that the Catholic Church states that there was a Great Outpouring of the Holy Spirit in the First Century in order to "jump-start" the Church.

I don't think that they necessarily "deny" it, it's just their way of explaining that they perceive that it occurs less now.

They also bring up that things like "tongues" can be man-made; whether it is a psychological manifistation of the will, or just plain fraudulence. So they are sceptical.

But they are similar on "miracles". The Catholic Church believes strongly in Miracles of God. But in order to be accepted as a "documented miracle" they require proof that such an event could not have come about naturally or by sheer chance.

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Re: Breaking in the new guy

Post by joecool on December 13th 2013, 5:40 pm

Back to the original theme of this thread. The new guy and I were part of the budget committee meeting yesterday. Going through the children's ministries section, someone asked if the requested amount for RR and M'nettes was enough. The new guy said he looked at last year's spending and it was. Someone then asked me for confirmation. "Yes, but only through the end of May." Lead pastor then asked the new guy what happens after May. He froze like a deer in the headlights. After an awkward silence I bailed him out by saying, "Whether RR and M'nettes survives or it's replaced by something else, Wed night needs funding for the rest of the year." The amount was bumped up and we moved on.  Busted 1 

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Re: Breaking in the new guy

Post by Claymore on December 13th 2013, 7:10 pm

When you get Church Staff Members with Secret Hidden Agenda, it rubs my fur the wrong way. :evil:

We had a controling, headstrong pastor who brought in a visiting speaker whose sermon was how we need to "...be as sheep and follow our shepherd...."

That "shepherd" is gone, has been at his new church for 6 months, and has lost half of his new congregation.

No matter how much you tell them to, some sheep won't eat rocks & sticks.

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Re: Breaking in the new guy

Post by Phillip Gross on December 13th 2013, 9:59 pm

joecool wrote:Back to the original theme of this thread. The new guy and I were part of the budget committee meeting yesterday. Going through the children's ministries section, someone asked if the requested amount for RR and M'nettes was enough. The new guy said he looked at last year's spending and it was. Someone then asked me for confirmation. "Yes, but only through the end of May." Lead pastor then asked the new guy what happens after May. He froze like a deer in the headlights. After an awkward silence I bailed him out by saying, "Whether RR and M'nettes survives or it's replaced by something else, Wed night needs funding for the rest of the year." The amount was bumped up and we moved on.  Busted 1 

I'll be praying that things go smoothly for you guys. Have you been able to develop any kind of relationship with him, or is it just that awkward feeling between people on different wavelengths?
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Re: Breaking in the new guy

Post by joecool on December 13th 2013, 11:30 pm

In this day and age, a lot of AG pastors have entered ministry without any exposure to RR. So they naturally want to do their own thing. I'm civil around him. He walks around like he's on eggshells. My wife is pretty incensed, though. He micromanages like you wouldn't believe.

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Re: Breaking in the new guy

Post by Phillip Gross on December 13th 2013, 11:45 pm

How old is he?
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Re: Breaking in the new guy

Post by RRCmdrBennett on December 13th 2013, 11:47 pm

Sounds good you have support from the top.

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Re: Breaking in the new guy

Post by joecool on December 14th 2013, 10:31 am

I'd say 30-couple. As for support from the top, I've gotten enough leading questions from him to know that Rangers is expendable.

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Re: Breaking in the new guy

Post by RRCmdrBennett on December 14th 2013, 11:13 pm

Your Lead pastor as well?

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Re: Breaking in the new guy

Post by Phillip Gross on December 14th 2013, 11:28 pm

joecool wrote:I'd say 30-couple. As for support from the top, I've gotten enough leading questions from him to know that Rangers is expendable.
So what do they want to be the main ministry for children? Just a hangout ministry??? I like youth group style ministries, but as a combination with instead of a replacement of a ministry that challenges like RR.
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Re: Breaking in the new guy

Post by RRCmdrBennett on December 14th 2013, 11:40 pm

In this age its cheaper, easier, and safer to keep the kiddos in the 4 walls of a church than to go forth into all the world as the bible says to do. I'm not called to be a children's church worker. Sure, its easier to just put in a couple hours a week and go home but it doesn't draw me.

Go camping tests your character and builds confidence to face adversity. Remember Jesus wasn't fasting in an upper room for 40 days he was led of the Spirit to go "camping" in the wilderness. That was the ultimate FCF Wilderness vigil! Everyone who followed Christ was a camper.

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Re: Breaking in the new guy

Post by Claymore on December 15th 2013, 1:19 am

I am going to divulge a secret that everyone here knows: Royal Rangers Builds Leaders.

We have seen young men come out of R/R who have developed Responsability, Courage, and other Leadership Traits.

I have heard Youth-Group Ministers say that they can tell which boys had been in Royal Rangers in their Confidence, Maturity, Leadership, & Team Attitude.

So if you don't invest that in the boys when they are in Grade School & Junior High, how much money will it take to put those values into the boys when they are of High School Age?

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Re: Breaking in the new guy

Post by RRCmdrBennett on December 15th 2013, 8:30 am

Its easier to build a boy (or girl) than to mend a man (or woman).

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fire FCF Frontiersman 9/91 fire
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Re: Breaking in the new guy

Post by joecool on December 15th 2013, 10:05 am

Phillip Gross wrote:
joecool wrote:I'd say 30-couple. As for support from the top, I've gotten enough leading questions from him to know that Rangers is expendable.
So what do they want to be the main ministry for children? Just a hangout ministry??? I like youth group style ministries, but as a combination with instead of a replacement of a ministry that challenges like RR.

Yeah, the Lead Pastor is ready to let the new guy pull the plug. What would he replace it with? I know that his comfort zone is sports outreach. When hired, the Lead even wrote it into his job description.

As far as our Sunday involvement with kids, today is the children's Christmas play, which my wife and I have headed up. The new guy knows we're done after it's over, after 300-plus consecutive Sundays. It's all his from here on out. He has chosen not to use any of the adult team that we've put together over time, electing to go with teenager assistants. He keeps asking us what we'd like to do on his team. We tell him to let us know what his ministry plan is, including what happens after May. No details communicated yet. No re-enlistment until then.

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