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Breaking in the new guy

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Re: Breaking in the new guy

Post by Claymore on October 2nd 2015, 3:13 pm

If they want to persist in making the same mistakes that have cut your church attendance, then it may be time to shake the dust from your shoes and leave.  

My personal interpretation of Jesus' advice to Not Feed Pearls to Swine is that (even though you should be charitable with what you have) you should not take your talents, money, and resources and throw them to people who will only waste them.  You have a limited amount of Time, Energy, and Money, and you should be a good Steward and use them wisely.

If they see that this guy is costing more than he is bring in, maybe the Board will see the Light, but then again ....................................

“What you are is God’s gift to you and what you make of yourself is your gift to God.”   Carly Fiorina.

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Re: Breaking in the new guy

Post by joecool on October 5th 2015, 9:12 pm

My knowledge of the new guy's retention is via a deacon with extremely loose lips. I'm awaiting an elder's response to an innocent, yet probing, question. If his answer confirms it, my course will be set in trying to change leadership's decision.

I don't think they realize how long a proper pastoral search can take. What if the new guy continues to poison the well, and leadership then tries to speed things up? Something a friend said haunts me..."Desperate churches find desperate pastors.

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Re: Breaking in the new guy

Post by ccm2361 on October 7th 2015, 12:01 pm

joecool wrote:I don't think they realize how long a proper pastoral search can take.

Yep
It took us a year & a half to find the right guy

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Re: Breaking in the new guy

Post by joecool on December 26th 2015, 11:17 pm

I recently read an article that at least helps me understand my frustration, if not give me an answer. It has to do with church sizes...

Family Church - less than 50 active members
Pastoral Church - 50 to 150
Program Church - 150 to 350
Corporate Church - over 350

Each church level has certain dynamics that dictate the pastor's style, the congregation's preferences, etc. And it certainly helps to keep those things in mind when looking for a new pastor, especially if your vision is to grow to a new level.

Here's where the article really hit home for me...When a church slips from being a program church to one that is pastoral, there are some who desperately try to hang on to the programs, at the cost of burning themselves and others out. Well, for sure that's what I've been doing.

Now I have to figure out how to be willing to accept our current status, regardless of how long it takes to get back to our former level. Or do I keep pushing? Cause I'm not seeing any attempt or discussion on how to start turning things around. After 4 years of decline, and then the pastor retiring, 4 months of catching our breath seems excessive.


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Re: Breaking in the new guy

Post by Claymore on December 26th 2015, 11:23 pm

Easy. History is the best teacher.


Just follow the example of Cornwallis at Yorktown.............

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Re: Breaking in the new guy

Post by Canadarangers on December 26th 2015, 11:35 pm

It took us 4 years to replace our assistant pastor. During that time our lead pastor had to take a year off for medical reasons and he has not been the same since he returned (3 yrs ago now). We had no full time pastor on staff and it was a noticeable deficiency. The Board was weak in terms of leadership during pastors absence too. It showed in our numbers on Sunday morning and the overall mood of the church. Once the new assistant came on staff he jumped right in and started to pick up the slack. It was worth waiting 4 years for the one that God had in his plan and time.

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Re: Breaking in the new guy

Post by joecool on December 26th 2015, 11:42 pm

Okay, I'm literally going off the top of my head here. British General Cornwallis was essentially surrounded by Washington's troops at Yorktown, Virginia. British deliverance in the form of the Royal Navy was kept at bay by the French fleet. Cornwallis eventually surrendered, and the American Revolution was successful.

Let's see. My church is the British force, waiting to be rescued? And ultimately locks the doors? That can't be right. Let's try something else. In an effort to get his troops home early, Cornwallis skillfully maneuvered his way between a rock and a hard place. Nope. Claymore, help me out. You better still be awake!

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Re: Breaking in the new guy

Post by Claymore on December 27th 2015, 12:20 am

Bruce, you're over-analyzing this thing.

Cornwallis was stuck in a hopeless situation.  He could either resist the inevitable at a great loss of human resources, or he could accept the unpalatable and say, "This ain't working", and cut his losses of fighting for an arrogant and unresponsive Command Structure.

Why continue to suffer, while the Board refuses to take any corrective action to rectify their previous poor decisions?

Unless your church is indispensable by sending significant financial support to your Youth Center; I don't know, are THOSE Supply Ships getting through?

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Re: Breaking in the new guy

Post by joecool on December 27th 2015, 2:23 am

Ah! I get it now. I do see a little hope with the interim pastor. He is working on the Bethel thing with the two remaining elders, trying to get them to see the light. He might find success, although this issue has been front and center for over a year now. I think it's the #1 issue holding most everything else up. I suppose I can wait a little longer to see how it all pans out.

Our interim pastor is in the middle of a series about the 50 days of Pentecost, referring to a time of preparation before the church took off. In our case, it's been 50 months.

The youth center is self-supporting.

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Re: Breaking in the new guy

Post by Phillip Gross on December 27th 2015, 5:35 am

I see similarities to the job discussion we had recently. To stay because of time served, or leave to chase happiness. I think there are plenty of pros and cons of either decision, but it ultimately comes down to asking Holy Spirit to guide you whether a job or church decision.

The first question is, do we trust that God will answer. The next question is, do we trust that God knows best in the answer He gives?

I'm reminded of the movie "War Room" with this topic. If you haven't seen it, I recommend you take a couple hours to watch it. Nothing more than a great reminder for us to spend more time in prayer about things than we do trying to fix it in the natural.
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Re: Breaking in the new guy

Post by Canadarangers on December 27th 2015, 3:16 pm

Phillip Gross wrote:
I'm reminded of the movie "War Room" with this topic. If you haven't seen it, I recommend you take a couple hours to watch it. Nothing more than a great reminder for us to spend more time in prayer about things than we do trying to fix it in the natural.

I just watched this movie on Christmas day. You hit the nail on the head when you suggest we spend more time in prayer seeking God to fight our battles, instead of us wasting our time and getting in His way. The movie was a big wake up call for me.

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Re: Breaking in the new guy

Post by Claymore on December 27th 2015, 6:02 pm

Our church is showing that movie next Sunday evening.

I place higher standards on Leaders, Elders, and Administrators than I put on Subordinates, but then I put higher standards on myself than I expect from my Subordinates.

I have very little patience with a boss who expects higher performance from his workers, but is not willing to put in a higher level of work, himself, in order to achieve that result.

(My Rule-of-Thumb is that a boss should put in the "square" of work to achieve the level of performance desired.  Example: If he wants his people to be twice as productive, he should put in 4 times the work and supervision to achieve it.)

Maybe that's why I (sometimes) don't show the level of patience/respect for National HQ that some folks would like to see.

------

That's also why a Second Lieutenant has the shortest expected Lifespan of anyone on the Battlefield. It is his JOB to be in FRONT of his men to encourage them to accomplish the Mission.

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Re: Breaking in the new guy

Post by Claymore on December 27th 2015, 6:21 pm

Last week, I told the boys to behave for 45 seconds, while I took the Christmas Presents (L.E.D. Flashlights) down the hall to the Girls' Class.

When I got back to the Ranger Room, I found one of the boys out of his seat and running around.  And so I gave a "strike"............................


............................................................................to the Patrol Leader.

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Re: Breaking in the new guy

Post by RRCmdrBennett on December 31st 2015, 3:00 am

Was he the only one running amok? 

I never knew about "War Room" till Walmart sold it.

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Re: Breaking in the new guy

Post by Claymore on January 9th 2016, 6:26 pm

Yes.

And the Patrol Leader was his older brother.

When I wrote the Patrol Leader's name on the whiteboard and gave him a "strike", the "offender" said, "Why did he get a strike? I was running around."

I informed him that the Patrol Leader was in charge, and was responsible for whatever happened while I was out.  I said that if I was there and they were misbehaving, that I would have been responsible.

The "offender" (about 7 years old) actually begged me to give him the strike rather than his brother, because of his misbehaving.

The little guy has a reputation for being the church "rascal", but feeling the responsibility of getting someone else into trouble for his mischief was a new and unexpected mental burden.

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Re: Breaking in the new guy

Post by joecool on January 31st 2016, 10:38 am

The new guy is off somewhere this weekend interviewing for a new position. Not sure how I feel about that. One would think he needs to be successful at a lower level before going after a senior pastor slot. I'll leave that up to others.

Meanwhile, we have a big business meeting this afternoon. In the last two weeks, leadership has changed the official ballot three times, trying to get it right. Not fostering a lot of confidence there.

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Re: Breaking in the new guy

Post by Claymore on January 31st 2016, 4:05 pm

OK.

So he can go off and interview for a job, and your church is supposed to keep the bed warm until he comes back; if he comes back.

But he can take another job to better his personal situation and leave his job slot at your church without a replacement on-deck.

Kind-of sounds line an "unequal yoking" to me.

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Re: Breaking in the new guy

Post by joecool on January 31st 2016, 4:28 pm

Claymore wrote: Kind-of sounds line an "unequal yoking" to me.

Believe me, most would be glad to be rid of this ox (or bull in a china shop, or cow, or...you catch my drift). A couple of us are ready to pick up the yoke ourselves, and save the church a lot of money as a bonus.

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Re: Breaking in the new guy

Post by joecool on February 1st 2016, 10:05 am

With nothing else to think about at 3:30 this morning, I resolved to take boys and men to "Pow Wow" this summer. Doesn't matter if we don't have Rangers anymore. Doesn't matter if the new guy is still around, either (won't invite him). Reach-Teach-Keep is all that matters.

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Re: Breaking in the new guy

Post by Claymore on February 1st 2016, 10:30 am

So was that decision:

"Off the Cuff"?

Well Thought Out?

Inspired?

Something Else?


In any event, I kind-of admire your "Grab the Bull by the Horns" attitude.

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Re: Breaking in the new guy

Post by joecool on February 1st 2016, 10:54 am

IF the Bethel issue is resolved by leadership, that means we stay at our church. The wife and I quietly offered to pick up children's ministries again if they want us to. If that happens, we'll see what's left of CM and re-tool it. It might mean Rangers is on Sunday. It might mean girls are a part of it. We'll see what happens.

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Re: Breaking in the new guy

Post by Claymore on February 1st 2016, 11:22 am

People with commitment like you and your wife (and extended family) are a rare & valuable asset that should not go unrecognized.

A missile that flies at 1200 MPH, but never makes it to anywhere near its target is of little use (except for short-term excitement and long-term disappointment).

I pray that your board breaks into an "Outpouring of Wisdom".

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Re: Breaking in the new guy

Post by joecool on February 1st 2016, 11:55 am

[quote="Claymore"] A missile that flies at 1200 MPH, but never makes it to anywhere near its target is of little use (except for short-term excitement and long-term disappointment). [quote]

Back around 1976, my ship pulled into Mayport, FL. Football bleachers were put on our helo flight deck, and we took on a couple hundred VIPs. Steamed east for a couple of hours and then went "all stop". Not long afterwards, we watched as a sub-launched Polaris missile broke the water's surface and climbed into the sky. Now, that was excitement.

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Re: Breaking in the new guy

Post by Claymore on February 1st 2016, 12:00 pm

Sounds cool!


Watching someone else launch a missile would be exciting,

but hanging your OWN round on the end of a mortar tube can bump your adrenaline, to.

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Re: Breaking in the new guy

Post by joecool on February 1st 2016, 12:04 pm

Claymore wrote: (...long-term disappointment). I pray that your board breaks into an "Outpouring of Wisdom".

Their ill-advised special non-election yesterday was beaten by a single vote. Phew! They wanted to keep a (short-handed) leadership team in power by suspending a portion of our by-laws. They needed a two-thirds vote, so even though we won, we're definitely in the minority.

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