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Deer Season

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Deer Season

Post by Claymore on October 22nd 2013, 8:01 pm

Last night, I loaded up a batch of Ammo for 2013 Deer Season.

Today, I took it down to the Range to verify Scope Zero.

.35 Whelen, 200 Grain Bullet generating 3,030 Foot/Pounds of Energy,
5 shots at 100 Yards = 2.25 inch group centered in target bulls-eye.

I added .4 grains of powder over Last Year's Load to boost Energy from 2,982 Foot/Pounds.

Recoil is getting a bit stout: the Scope gimme Kiss.Neutral 

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Re: Deer Season

Post by ccm2361 on October 22nd 2013, 9:53 pm

oops Laughing 

.35 Whelen is an uncommon load these days.

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Re: Deer Season

Post by Claymore on October 22nd 2013, 10:09 pm

Mississippi Law has classified the following as a "Primitive Weapon":

Single-Shot Firearm
With Exposed Hammer
Firing Metallic Cartridge
Smokeless or Black Powder
Of Caliber Not Less Than .35 Cal.
Scopes & Optics ARE Allowed

This allows you to hunt in ALL of the Gun Seasons running from Mid-November until January 31, and take a total of 6 deer.

The .35 Whelen is making a Big-Time Comeback in Mississippi (and also Louisiana, as they have copied and posted the same language into their Regs.).

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Re: Deer Season

Post by RRCmdrBennett on October 23rd 2013, 12:28 am

Your special gun season isn't muzzleloader only? I have a single shot breakdown with exposed hammer in 12ga does that count?

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Re: Deer Season

Post by Claymore on October 23rd 2013, 12:42 am

Technically, no.

But there is a way to make it "Technically Yes".

If:

You were to have a slug loaded in a metallic cartridge.

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Re: Deer Season

Post by RRCmdrBennett on October 23rd 2013, 12:48 am

It applies generally to single shot rifles? Is it possible to reload a slug or sabot into a metallic cartridge for use in a shotgun?

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Re: Deer Season

Post by Claymore on October 23rd 2013, 1:06 am

I was just researching that.

I have never reloaded all-brass shotgun shells.  But the guys on the forums say that slugs would probably not be condusive, because the walls of the brass shells are thinner than paper or plastic, and the slug would tend to "rattle around" in the shell.

A solution to this MIGHT be to use a hollow-base/skirted slug and run a few turns of paper (about 1/8 high) at the very bottom of the base.  The paper should just shed off when it hits the (more constricted) barrel and then just be pushed out by the over-powder wad.

I would definately NOT attempt using a sabot, as the sabot around the slug may start to open up before the slug got to the barrel, causing an obstruction.

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Re: Deer Season

Post by RRCmdrBennett on October 24th 2013, 9:51 pm

Claymore, in your state can a hunter who is bow hunting deer also carry a rifle/shotgun to hunt coyote?

Are you allowed to conceal carry/open carry while hunting? Our reg books say its permissable to conceal carry while hunting but the pistol can't be used for hunting. It makes no mention of open carry even though it is legal in Ohio. My understanding is if you can conceal carry a pistol in a certain place you can also open carry as well.

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Re: Deer Season

Post by Claymore on October 24th 2013, 11:46 pm

In Alabama (where I am a Hunter Safety Instructor), you CAN Openly Carry a Handgun while Bowhunting for personal protection --- if it is otherwise legal to do so. I tell my classes that, it does NOT give authorization for a convicted felon or 10 year old boy to carry a handgun.

In Mississippi, you can only legally carry a handgun while bowhunting, if you have a Concealed Carry Permit.

However, you MAY carry a long gun for the sole purpose of taking Feral Hogs, unless you are hunting on Public Lands that specify Hunting by Archery Only.

Reason for the last is that hogs are becoming so invasive and destructive that the Fish & Game Department is authorizing 'most anything short of nuclear weapons to eradicate them.

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Re: Deer Season

Post by RRCmdrBennett on October 25th 2013, 1:08 am

I was asking cause my father inlaw wants to possibly get ccw just for self defense against coyotes if he's out bow hunting deer. If he can just open carry a pistol while bow hunting he wouldn't need to spend nearly $200 to do it. As well if he can carry a rifle with his bow but only use his rifle for shooting other animals only that would be ok too. I don't see the point of him doing conceal carry for just bow hunting when open carry is legal or bring a rifle in addition to the bow.

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Re: Deer Season

Post by Claymore on February 20th 2014, 12:41 am

Since the inside of our house is now finished, I am trying to find time to get to my neglected hobbies.

I pulled out a 6.5mm Swedish Mauser, cleaned it up, and did an inspection and some research on the armorer's medallion on the stock.

First, the bad news.  The numbers on the Barrel Bands, Butt Plate, and Magazine Plate do not match the receiver.  

Now the good news.  The serial number on the Bolt (most important part) does match the receiver (which means that the Bolt & Barrel should be properly Headspaced).

According to the markings on the armorer's medallion, the absolute Minimum that a bore may be is 6.46 millimeters, and the absolute Maximum that it may be is 6.59 millimeters.  When last inspected, mine was measured at 6.49 millimeters.  That means that it is "just over minimum" (almost new).

There are also marks for "Overall" Condition of the bore, as determined by the armorer:
0 = Excellent
1 = Good
2 = Fair
3 = Poor

My bore was evaluated as a "0".

So, I should have a very Non-Collectable, Highly-Accurate Shooter.

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Re: Deer Season

Post by RRCmdrBennett on February 20th 2014, 7:53 am

In survival situation where you don't care about a trophy or a nice picture would a headshot with a .22 or .223 be more than capable of taking down a deer?

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Re: Deer Season

Post by Claymore on February 20th 2014, 11:42 am

A lot of deer have been poached with .22 LR's.  But I don't think that a "Sportsman" would do it, as chances of wounding the deer & losing the meat are too high, if your shot placement isn't absolutely perfect.

Some swear by .223's; especially in the South, where deer don't run much over 100 pounds.  But again I have personally seen too many deer get hit by a .223 and not get recovered.

The muzzle energy of a .223 is about 1,300 Foot/Pounds, while the muzzle energy of a .308 is about 2,450 to 2,580 Foot/Pounds.  

I have lost three "hit" deer in about 45 years of hunting.  Two were with .223's, and one of those was with "Barnes Tripple-Shock" Copper Solid Bullets (that cost about $2.00 each).  Insofar as shot placement, the vast majority of deer that I have shot were found to have a portion of the heart destroyed by the bullet, so I know how to aim.

Bottom line is that .223's are good for coyotes and 2-legged critters (Ostriches, Emus, & such).

The third deer that I lost (although I aimed properly, found no blood) was with a .35 Whelen.  I can only guess as to why, but I'm wondering if the bullet was deflected by brush.

By the way, insofar as "Head-Shots". I have talked to hunters who have found deer running in the woods that had part of their jaws blown away. I would suppose that those were from botched "Head Shots". Not very sporting, as far as I'm concerned.

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Re: Deer Season

Post by RRCmdrBennett on February 20th 2014, 9:57 pm

Claymore wrote:A lot of deer have been poached with .22 LR's.  But I don't think that a "Sportsman" would do it, as chances of wounding the deer & losing the meat are too high, if your shot placement isn't absolutely perfect.

Some swear by .223's; especially in the South, where deer don't run much over 100 pounds.  But again I have personally seen too many deer get hit by a .223 and not get recovered.

The muzzle energy of a .223 is about 1,300 Foot/Pounds, while the muzzle energy of a .308 is about 2,450 to 2,580 Foot/Pounds.  

I have lost three "hit" deer in about 45 years of hunting.  Two were with .223's, and one of those was with "Barnes Tripple-Shock" Copper Solid Bullets (that cost about $2.00 each).  Insofar as shot placement, the vast majority of deer that I have shot were found to have a portion of the heart destroyed by the bullet, so I know how to aim.

Have you ever made an instant killshot? I've seen shows on the Outdoors Channel where the deer collapse on the spot and die almost instantly. How do you do that?

Bottom line is that .223's are good for coyotes and 2-legged critters (Ostriches, Emus, & such).

The third deer that I lost (although I aimed properly, found no blood) was with a .35 Whelen.  I can only guess as to why, but I'm wondering if the bullet was deflected by brush.

By the way, insofar as "Head-Shots".  I have talked to hunters who have found deer running in the woods that had part of their jaws blown away.  I would suppose that those were from botched "Head Shots".  Not very sporting, as far as I'm concerned.

I wouldn't consider it sportsman like either except under a survival situation and you had a low caliber/powered rifle.  I've heard of farmers carrying a .22LR on the farm equipment so if they see deer they pop'em in the head.

I figure on your list of good uses for .223 that might include wild boar?  In Ohio we have open season year round for coyote and wild boar.  I've heard stories in a local store where hunters had trouble taking wild boar down with 12ga 00 buckshot.  

The two deer that got away with .223 rounds did you only shoot each deer once?  With the quick rapid fire of a AR-15 would a second or third follow up shot make a difference?  I've heard of hunters who will unload all 3 shots if the deer is still visible after its hit once.  I figure 2-3 hits with a .223 isn't going bananas.

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Re: Deer Season

Post by Claymore on February 21st 2014, 12:55 am

I guess that I have a "bad" habit of expecting my target to go down when I hit it. Almost all deer that I have ever shot have dropped within a few feet of where I hit them (except for a large doe in Wisconsin that went about 150 yards after being hit with a 12 gauge slug).

As a competitive shooter, you shoot your target. If your sights were "on", then you take confidence that you hit your target and go on to the next. If you wait for a target to fall before going to the next "threat" you won't place in any competitions.

In Mississippi, I could hunt with a 30-round magazine, if I wanted. I only carry a 5 to 10 round mag when hunting.

So yes. Even with a semiautomatic, I expect the target to drop with 1 well-placed shot.

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Re: Deer Season

Post by RRCmdrBennett on February 21st 2014, 7:40 am

I guess in a survival situation and .223 is all you had follow shots would be needed to be effective. With a choice of weapons I'd choose higher calibers. Here my only choice is 12ga with a slug or sabot. If one is willing to pay $3k there is a Ohio Hunting in Amish country that lets you use rifles too.

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