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Scout Leaders destroy ancient rock formation to "save lives"

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Scout Leaders destroy ancient rock formation to "save lives"

Post by ccm2361 on October 19th 2013, 10:25 am

2 Scout Leaders were concerned a rock formation would fall & squash someone, so they pushed it over.  Alas, they just discovered that was a a felony.
read the whole story here


What do you think?  does "safety" outweigh geology?


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Re: Scout Leaders destroy ancient rock formation to "save lives"

Post by Claymore on October 19th 2013, 3:07 pm

Not their job.

Not their property.

They didn't have the authority.

If they have a problem, report it to the authorities, and/or take their kids someplace else.


How 'bout if they had destroyed a cliff face, because they believed that someone might get hurt rappelling?

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Re: Scout Leaders destroy ancient rock formation to "save lives"

Post by RRCmdrBennett on October 19th 2013, 8:18 pm

How would Italy feel if scouts toppled the leaning tower of Pisa for safety reasons? If its an unnecessary risk don't go near the rock formation. Take your boys somewhere else or go around it.

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Re: Scout Leaders destroy ancient rock formation to "save lives"

Post by strods on October 19th 2013, 11:58 pm

what That rock has been there for how long? And they want to say the toppled it now so it wouldn't hit a kid soon. I'm sorry. I have a problem with that story. Where is this alleged boy in harms way? And that rock certainly didn't look like it was about to give way any moment. If it were, if they had to hold it back, then I could accept their story. But what I saw on the video, there was no emanate threat to justify such actions. With out such urgency, their argument looses a lot of credibility.

That being said. This strikes me as a case of unintentional vandalism. I say unintentional because who would think that moving a rock would be illegal. Yes they did intend to move the rock, but they weren't intending to deface or ruin the park. Last I knew vandalism was more like a misdemeanor, I'm surprised it's a felony charge.

Either way you look at it this, you have stupidity. It sound like it starts with Scoutmasters who didn't read up on the local rules for this park. Then it continues with a bad decision to more a rock causing no harm.
Videotaping an act of stupidity is itself a stupid act, and then POSTING IT ONLINE! is a fourth act of stupidity.
And although stupidity may be a cause, it is not a defense. Ignorance of the law (or common sense) is not and excuse.

The Bible teaches we are ambassadors. By all means, we follow the teachings of Christ and the Bible, but when there is no sin, there is wisdom in "when in Rome, do as Romans". The locals have left that rock alone, we should leave that rock alone
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Re: Scout Leaders destroy ancient rock formation to "save lives"

Post by RRCmdrBennett on October 20th 2013, 1:24 am

It also violates the scout's rule on, "leave no trace" behind. They disturbed a natural formation with no one in harms way.

The "age" of the rock gets an Rolling Eyes from me. Looks like a boy or man would have to intentionally sit below it for it to pose any danger.

Would be interesting to see what the outcome of their trial will be c

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Re: Scout Leaders destroy ancient rock formation to "save lives"

Post by ccm2361 on October 20th 2013, 9:59 pm

you have to wonder how long these 2 have been scout leaders.
"No trace left behind" seems like a pretty basic concept. Dunno

that video gives scout leaders everywhere a black eye.

I'm glad they weren't ranger leaders

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Re: Scout Leaders destroy ancient rock formation to "save lives"

Post by Claymore on October 20th 2013, 10:29 pm

"It's all about saving lives..........."

Normally Ranger & Scout Leaders are pretty Conservative Guys.

Destroying Property that does not belong to you for (what you perceive as) "the Common Good" is normally a Leftist Frame of Mind.

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Re: Scout Leaders destroy ancient rock formation to "save lives"

Post by RRCmdrBennett on October 20th 2013, 11:42 pm

Claymore wrote:"It's all about saving lives..........."

Normally Ranger & Scout Leaders are pretty Conservative Guys.  

Destroying Property that does not belong to you for (what you perceive as) "the Common Good" is normally a Leftist Frame of Mind.
They let in gay boys and in the same year they start going leftist doesn't surprise me.

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Re: Scout Leaders destroy ancient rock formation to "save lives"

Post by strods on October 20th 2013, 11:45 pm

RRCmdrBennett wrote:

The "age" of the rock gets an Rolling Eyes from me. Looks like a boy or man would have to intentionally sit below it for it to pose any danger.
I wasn't even going for the evolution / creation POV, though I am a creationist believer.
At the least this rock has been there for many hundreds of years, and it didn't look like it was about to give way any time soon to me, until they started messing with it.

A better lesson would be to point and say "hey son, see how that rock is. That is an example of one of the many reasons why you need to be awake and alert out in God's world. Danger can lie and wait for a like time before it tries to get you."

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Re: Scout Leaders destroy ancient rock formation to "save lives"

Post by Claymore on October 21st 2013, 12:05 am

I was just looking at the Headlines for the past 24 hours;

"Idiot Scout Leaders Intentionally Destroy Ancient Rock Formation"

It just really reflects poorly on thousands of adult volunteer leaders.

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Re: Scout Leaders destroy ancient rock formation to "save lives"

Post by RRCmdrBennett on October 21st 2013, 12:43 am

strods wrote:
RRCmdrBennett wrote:

The "age" of the rock gets an Rolling Eyes from me. Looks like a boy or man would have to intentionally sit below it for it to pose any danger.
I wasn't even going for the evolution / creation POV, though I am a creationist believer.  
At the least this rock has been there for many hundreds of years, and it didn't look like it was about to give way any time soon to me, until they started messing with it.  

A better lesson would be to point and say "hey son, see how that rock is.  That is an example of one of the many reasons why you need to be awake and alert out in God's world.  Danger can lie and wait for a like time before it tries to get you."
Definitely agree with you.

That could have been formed during the flood 1000's of years ago.

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Re: Scout Leaders destroy ancient rock formation to "save lives"

Post by strods on October 21st 2013, 11:04 am

Likely was

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Re: Scout Leaders destroy ancient rock formation to "save lives"

Post by RRCmdrBennett on October 21st 2013, 5:03 pm

http://www.redflagnews.com/headlines/news-gets-even-worse-for-scout-leader-caught-on-video-pushing-over-jurassic-era-rock-formation

It thickens...scout leader who did the vandalism was involved in a suit over an accident. He was trying to purport that he was severely disabled. The question is how does a disabled man topple a 1 - ton rock?

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Re: Scout Leaders destroy ancient rock formation to "save lives"

Post by ccm2361 on October 21st 2013, 5:12 pm

Poor judgement AND Insurance fraud, what a great example to set for his scouts thumb down 

even more glad they weren't ranger leaders

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Re: Scout Leaders destroy ancient rock formation to "save lives"

Post by Mark Jones on October 21st 2013, 6:01 pm

Ah it a rock. It was ready to roll off and kill someone. Not an uncommon thing to see around young men and boys out in the wilderness. I see them push over tree's all the time. Rocks are generally to heavy to push but they often try them. Seems to be something in men that try this.

I never was one to do so..but a lot do.

I know people that go to work every day with backpain. Just because they are looking to be compensated doesn't mean they are dead in a coffin.

How about a little grace here. It's only a rock that was about to roll off and kill someone.

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Re: Scout Leaders destroy ancient rock formation to "save lives"

Post by ccm2361 on October 21st 2013, 7:02 pm

compensation is one thing....but his lawsuit claims he is in

“great pain and suffering, disability, impairment, loss of life” due to the accident


but I guess not disabled enough to help move a 2000 pound rock.

Also Fox News reports: "Northern Utah Boy Scouts council announced Monday that Glenn Taylor and Dave Hall will no longer be allowed to lead scouting troops due to what happened Oct. 11 at Goblin Valley State Park, which they filmed and posted on Facebook."

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Re: Scout Leaders destroy ancient rock formation to "save lives"

Post by RRCmdrBennett on October 21st 2013, 7:37 pm

Mark Jones wrote:Ah it a rock.  It was ready to roll off and kill someone.  Not an uncommon thing to see around young men and boys out in the wilderness.  I see them push over tree's all the time.  Rocks are generally to heavy to push but they often try them.  Seems to be something in men that try this.

I never was one to do so..but a lot do.

I know people that go to work every day with backpain.  Just because they are looking to be compensated doesn't mean they are dead in a coffin.  

How about a little grace here. It's only a rock that was about to roll off and kill someone.  

Mark Jones
I read a lil sacasm maybe or are you serious?

I am not saying we shouldn't forgive but I do know whether or not we have forgiveness we still often pay for our misdeeds here on earth. We could swing the prison doors and say, "we love you and you're all pardoned. Go and sin no more!" Odds being what they are many do it all over again and wreck more havoc the second time. Jesus could have done that for repentant thief to his right side but instead allowed him to pay the penalty.

I hope this teaches them scout leaders and boys a valuable lesson.

I definitely do understand the back pain from an auto accident. I barely worked through it for a few months. I had to work so I worked through it. I wouldn't be going on hikes or tipping over 2K lbs rocks if I was making a case to sue the driver.

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Re: Scout Leaders destroy ancient rock formation to "save lives"

Post by Claymore on October 21st 2013, 8:12 pm

Hey, let's all go on an outing and put Childproof locks on the Grand Canyon.


Oh, never mind. Obama did that last week.

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Re: Scout Leaders destroy ancient rock formation to "save lives"

Post by RRCmdrBennett on October 21st 2013, 8:56 pm

We need more Barrycades to make us safer...

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Re: Scout Leaders destroy ancient rock formation to "save lives"

Post by Mark Jones on October 22nd 2013, 9:02 am

This reminds me of when Rich Hammer told us at National RR council that the boyscouts got sued for a boy falling off a cliff because they were not warned there was no handrails there.

Last month a family was killed by a landslide in Colorado.

A scout leader had a troop backpacking in Ozark a couple of years back. A unusual storm came up and flash flooded and drowned about 15 people in a campground..the scouts were safe they just were marooned and found in good condition just the water was too high for them to cross. I heard several comments...that leader should be reprimanded for taking those boys outside. He's just asking for it.

Hind site is such a fickle thing. Trees are called widow makers when they are dead and they just fall...killing what's below them. I have seen a bunch of dead trees standing...

Yup it's just a rock. It's been there for a long, long time...yet one man with a back injury was able to push it off it's shifting sand. Is he a hero or is he a vandal? It's a good question.

I don't tear stuff up. Yet I have removed safety hazards before. I wasn't there so I will keep my JUDGEments to myself.

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Re: Scout Leaders destroy ancient rock formation to "save lives"

Post by Mark Jones on October 22nd 2013, 10:04 am

Another note. Doing some 30 outings a year outside the walls of the church has made me more aware of the behavior of boys and men. This is not a uncommon thing for men and boys to do. Push over a dead tree or topple a rock that is about to fall.

I don't encourage it. I discourage it. Yet they still do it. Many times I have walked into a backpack camp the next day to find a dead tree in the midist of us that will fall over with the push of a hand and go tumbling down... often breaking in half on the top part up... I have seen it so many times I warn the boys and men it could break in half and hit you in the head.

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p.s. Offically anytime you touch a tree, rock or disturb something in a National park... you have commited a felony if they want to push it. We leave it better than we found it. That's my policy.
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Re: Scout Leaders destroy ancient rock formation to "save lives"

Post by Mark Jones on October 22nd 2013, 12:57 pm

I say crucify him. Shout loud as the crowd will often rule in this situation... I am a lone voice speaking out in the wilderness... GRIN! but I won't throw you all out to be crucified either.

It was just a rock...he didn't say he was God. So let's just stick him with a felony and not kill him. GRIN! We are no different today than they were in Jesus day. I am speaking to myself here as well.
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Re: Scout Leaders destroy ancient rock formation to "save lives"

Post by Claymore on October 22nd 2013, 1:36 pm

I saw a followup on Fox News.  They stated that he has a Million Dollar Lawsuit against a teen-age boy for a disability caused by a car accident.

He seems to have no problem in "Lowering the Hammer" on someone else, when he has an opportunity.

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Re: Scout Leaders destroy ancient rock formation to "save lives"

Post by RRCmdrBennett on October 22nd 2013, 5:43 pm

It does appear this is not a typical pain and suffering suit. If you can topple a boulder, hike, and work why do you think you're entitled to $1,000,000...?

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Re: Scout Leaders destroy ancient rock formation to "save lives"

Post by Claymore on October 22nd 2013, 7:37 pm

Take money that doesn't belong to you;
Destroy stuff that doesn't belong to you............same mindset!

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